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PhilTheThrill
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 95
| Posted 2/23/2004 8:31 AM (GMT -6) |   | Hey all,
A friend of mine recently said to me "The Calvinist can justify not devoting his entire life to missions work because he knows God will save whoever he chose before the beginning of the earth. The Arminian can justify not devoting their life to missions because God already foreknows who is going to be saved and there's no urgency there. How does the Open Theist justify not spending every waking moment evangelizing since every soul is up for grabs and every moment is crucial?"
What would you all say to that?
It also brings up an interesting side question about how God's foreknowledge relates to salvation in the OVT view. What are OVT's tenets regarding foreknowledge of who is saved?
-Phil | | Back to Top | | |
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feelinahole
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754
| Posted 2/23/2004 6:38 PM (GMT -6) | | Frankly, since I am an open theist (which makes me qualified to answer the question I suppose), I do not worry about missions, because, whether or not I answer a "call" from God (which I don't believe most people who say they had one actually got one, but that is another story!), God is resourceful enough to find enough people to answer the call. God includes me in his work for my benefit, not nessecccarily for his. It is my responsibility to grow in Christ and when I (my responsibility) see a need and it touches my heart, I act on it. I don't believe God has any set plan for my life except that I conform to the image of his son.
As far as foreknowledge, there is no set open view. Each has his own.
BTW Phil, your friend sounds pretty knowledgable to me | | Back to Top | | |
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Starkman
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747
| Posted 2/24/2004 3:41 AM (GMT -6) | | Phil,
"Every waking moment"? Heavens, we have to eat and work. None of the theological camps you've mentioned could evangelize every waking moment no matter what they believe about who's chosen, not chosen or could become chosen.
The point is that we are all called to some sort of ministry, be we Calvinists, Arminians, Open Theists or ... well, okay, not the Moonies! We all must seek to please God, to do as He directs, to obey His word (in regard to "Go, make disciples ..."). In regard to a desire to see the lost come to salvation, the heart of one holding one theological perspective is no greater than the heart of another holding a different perspective, assuming these persons from any of these camps truly love God and the lost. We all are to do what we can do and leave the rest in God's hand.
Starkman | | Back to Top | | |
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PhilTheThrill
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 95
| Posted 2/25/2004 6:47 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by feelinahole
Frankly, since I am an open theist (which makes me qualified to answer the question I suppose), I do not worry about missions, because, whether or not I answer a "call" from God (which I don't believe most people who say they had one actually got one, but that is another story!), God is resourceful enough to find enough people to answer the call. God includes me in his work for my benefit, not nessecccarily for his. It is my responsibility to grow in Christ and when I (my responsibility) see a need and it touches my heart, I act on it. I don't believe God has any set plan for my life except that I conform to the image of his son.
I tend to agree with this answer, as well as
quote:
"Every waking moment"? Heavens, we have to eat and work. None of the theological camps you've mentioned could evangelize every waking moment no matter what they believe about who's chosen, not chosen or could become chosen.
Plus I think "missions" manifests in different forms. For example, I'm sure alot of the folks on this board are into apologetics and christian philosophy. Helping the cause of the modern apologetics movement is another form of missions work. I think just living a christian life is a form of missions too. My friend tends to be kind of frenetic in what he does, so i think if he were an OT, he would feel obligated to deny himself all recreation time so that he could spend it winning souls. Personally, i don't see the OVT as putting any more of a time-critical burden on the believer than any other view (except maybe calvinism )
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johnmd
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2002
Total Posts : 154
| Posted 2/25/2004 8:19 AM (GMT -6) | | I know many Arminians and Calvinists alike who recognize and practice the urgency of evangelism. One of my very best friends, “5-pointer,” is a case in point. The typical response as to why, given each’s theological construct is “we are God’s means to evengelism” (Arminian) and “obedience” (Calvinist). Of course even these responses reveal the inconsistency between their belief and behavior and the incoherence between their professed doctrine and practice. After all what real meaning can be assigned to being “obedient” or “serving as the means” to that which was predetermined or foreknown. That Arminians and Calvinists evangelize is common in my experience primarily, I believe, because while their systematic theology may(?) look good on paper I know of no one who actually behaves as if the future is exhaustively settled. And actions always speak louder than words.Ultimately it is the practice of evangelism that renders both Calvinism and Arminianism on the horns of a dilima—either adher to the “system” and be disobedient to the mandate of Scripture or evangelize over and against one’s theological construct.
With regard to open Theism and evangelism the motive is obvious. “We” believe that God has chosen to make His plan of redemption in some significant way contigent on man. Hence, Open Theists believe man is genuinely obedient and genuinely God’s means to evangelism. There is real responsibility incumbent with real chastisment for disobedience and real blessing for obdeience. And God is just wise enough to work through man, even in the context of the fallen world to offer his plan of redemption to all. Scripture testifies that while God expects obedience of all, God is able to accomplish His plan with a relative few (e.g., the 12 Apostles, Paul, etc.) who are absolutely committed. God doesn’t need to “determine” or even have “foreknowledge” as to who will be saved. He is perfectly capable via His infinite wisdom throught the power of His love to motivate believers to evengelism and discipleship accomplish His purpose of redemption
To God alone be the glory
John | | Back to Top | | |
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feelinahole
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754
| Posted 2/25/2004 9:43 AM (GMT -6) | | | Excellant points, John. While people may say their future is determined, they live by their choices as if it were not. They live as if what they choose is important in and of itself. | | Back to Top | | |
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