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jessemorrell
Registered Member
Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 77
| Posted 4/3/2008 2:57 PM (GMT -6) |   | Often Arminianism and Open Theism is accused by Calvinists of exalting man instead of glorifying God, and of limiting God. While Calvinism, they claim, humbles man and exalts God. But is this true?
WHAT REALLY GLORIFIES GOD?
Is God glorified if we say that God is the cause of all sin (Calvinistic Sovereignty)?
Or is God glorified if we say that God gave us a free will so that we could be capable of loving Him and loving each other (Arminianism?)
WHAT REALLY HUMBLES MAN?
Is it a low view of man to say that he was created in the womb by God totally depraved, and sins because he can't help it, that it's not his fault that he's a sinner? (Calvinism)
Or is it a low view of man to say that God has given man all of the ability needed for obedience, yet he selfishly and foolishly chooses to be a sinner anyways. (Moral Government)
WHAT REALLY LIMITS GOD?
Does it limit God to say that he lives outside of time, and is therefore frozen, and therefore he is emotionless, thoughtless, and powerless? (Classic Theism)
Or does it limit God to say that God lives in time, that He is therefore dynamic and active, that God has thoughts, feelings, and makes decisions, and is powerful - having all things possible for Him. (Open Theism)
Does it limit God to say that he foresees all things from all of eternity, and is therefore just a helpless observer who has no control or ability to change the future, with no ability to make plans to change plans since all things are eternally settled in His mind? (Classic Theism)
Or does it limit God to say that the future is open because God has a free will, and therefore God is able to make plans, change plans, steer - guide - and influence the course of history? (Open Theism)
IN MY OPINION
In my opinion, Calvinism seems to slander God, and their view of man is that man is nothing more then a poor little helpless victim of Adam, victim of God's eternal decrees, and a crippled through his God given nature. This makes you pity man, but certainly not blame him.
But Arminianism seems to truly exalt God and truly humble man. It says that man's a sinner by voluntary choice, and is therefore a criminal but not a crippled.
And Open Theism seems to liberate God from being trapped in a timeless realm, while classic theism limits God extremely by making him a timeless being who is frozen, incapable of thought, action, or feelings. Open Theism liberates God from the limited box that Classic Theism put Him in.
Just some considerations. I think these are some valid points.
For the Audience of One
Jesse Morrell
www.OpenAirOutreach.com
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Ronald A. Newcomb
Registered Member
Date Joined Mar 2002
Total Posts : 45
| Posted 5/11/2008 9:09 AM (GMT -6) | | The opinion above by feelinahole creates an unreal world where only opinions and ideas glorify God. This leaves the glory of God to human opinions!
On our world this would be like saying other people’s opinions of me, expressed or not, lift me up or bring me down as opposed to saying, what I have accomplished lifts me up or brings me down. It bases who I am on other people’s thoughts.
I really don’t care much for people’s opinions of me, I care about what I am able to accomplish. I feel good about myself when I accomplish something worthy of the effort, not when someone thinks something about me.
Jesse’s original points are correct except that I would eliminate the “opinion” from them.
All claims about God limit (our description of) him to being one way and not being something contradictory to that unless you are Hindu or one of the new Hindu ideas such as contemplative prayer currently poisoning our churches.
Calvinism actually slanders God because it lays at his feet the responsibility of planning the actual evil and sin on earth. He is the sole creator of the entire plan and did nothing to change his plan before implementing it when it existed only in his mind. Ergo, he is responsible for all evil including the rape of my sister and the rape of her daughter, the rather ugly death of my father, the holocaust, virtually all of it.
There is no equivocating that by calling it opinion, it is the logical implication of the Calvinist view. The Calvinist “glorify” God by putting him in a timeless, changeless box where he learns nothing, does not act or so much as twitch because he is outside of time. This is a painting done by the Greek philosophers, not by Jews and Christians. Augustine and others have brought this painting in and hung it on the walls of the churches. It doesn’t belong there.
My God is a God who cares about people, works for their redemption, cries when people rebel, gets mad when he learns people have done things, adjusts his plans to work them out even when humans free will interferes with those plans, in fact hid his plan of salvation from man so Satan could not use his free will to try and stop that plan, and generally interacts in real time with the universe he created.
This is the God we see in the Bible. God in real time.
Professor Newcomb
San Diego State University
College of Sciences
Adjunct Faculty Member
P.I. ICATS
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