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| Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > The raging debate continues here... > "From/before the foundation of the world" | Forum Quick Jump
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Starkman
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747
| Posted 4/10/2004 1:00 PM (GMT -6) |   | jefscot,
That's the worse, most horrible, disasterous, creepy, crawly--and all those kinds of things--interpretation I have ever heard. You ought to be ashamed (yes, do gasp!) of yourself for posting such a thing!
Oh, and welcome to the board! 
Hey, nice to have you here, and I'm only razzin' ya, you know!
Interesting thought. I'm too tired (and have bank accounts to balance--lovely!) to go back and re-read the thread, but I'll do so later.
Again, welcome! And don't ever post something so hideous as that again!!!
For makin' 'em feel welcome here,
Starkman
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 4/10/2004 2:34 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Starkman
Hey echo,
With all due respect, I, Personally, do not feel that were Jesus to be sitting with us, talking about the topic of this post, he would go mystic on this particular conversation: What I'm saying is that I think I see in this dicussion, here, the temptation to consider history as flat. But not everything is the same. The MEANING of the Cross redefines all other meanings. And the MEANING of the world to come gives definition to the worshipfilled life of those who even now participate in the 'meaning'/life of the world to come.
Hey right back at you, Starkman. Thanks for posting a response. But...
Why respond when you don't understand what is said?  I felt like you see my post an an interuption to your own thoughts. But it was my thoughts posted, and they make perfectly good sense to me -- as I hope you will notice below.
Clearly, the Cross explains the OT in ways that the OT was not evident even to the writers and prophets!!!
Clearly, the world is evident as "sacramental" (in both the senses that its right use is worshipful towards God, and that respectul use is salvific in degrees--like land reclamation recovery for polution...it glorifies God.)
There is more implied above too, and more that can be said.
But, why you reacted without knowing first what is being said is ...
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Calvin_and_Hops
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 21
| Posted 4/10/2004 2:38 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Revelation 17:8 "The beast, which you saw, once was, now is not, and will come up out of the Abyss and go to his destruction. The inhabitants of the earth whose names have not been written in the book of life from the creation of the world will be astonished when they see the beast, because he once was, now is not, and yet will come."
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Calvin_and_Hops
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 21
| Posted 4/10/2004 2:46 PM (GMT -6) | | Here's a guy who seems to suggest something like that its the book that is "from the foundations..." and not necessarily what is written in it. Simple enough.
quote:
What I see regarding the Lamb's Book of Life is that ALL of Adam's descendents along with himself and Eve were initially written in it. However, we see that for "your own sin shall you die". The ULTIMATE sin is the rejection of Jesus Christ. I have no doubt that God means it when He says He desires that NONE should perish, and so in some way, I believe that He reaches out to every man, woman and child in His own timing, to deliver the Gospel message (God's power unto salvation) to them. He may do this repeatedly, but when that person dies, if they have not accepted Christ, they are erased from The Book. Babies, little children, the mentally infirm have no concept of "sin", they are innocent and thus remain in the Lamb's Book of Life. Jesus may even reach out to them in some way we don't understand.
But God DOES have an eraser.
Blessings,
Dad Ernie
http://www.christianforums.com/pda/index.php/t-98965
How's that?
(Avoids the "OSAS-Once Saved Always Saved" thing too.) | | Back to Top | | |
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Starkman
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747
| Posted 4/11/2004 11:24 AM (GMT -6) | | Hello echo,
OK, here's why I posted what I posted about your post. In this thread we are discussing how Revelation 17:8 and similar verses are to be interpreted, namely folk written in the book of life before the foundation of the world. Now, here's a few quotes from your first post.
What I'm saying is that I think I see in this dicussion, here, the temptation to consider history as flat. But not everything is the same. The MEANING of the Cross redefines all other meanings. And the MEANING of the world to come gives definition to the worshipfilled life of those who even now participate in the 'meaning'/life of the world to come.
The Mystery of Christ is 'from before' even while it is true that his accomplishing our salvation was fulfilled on Mount Calvary. THAT redefines ALL of history with respect to itself. And all that is 'pre'-history points towards it. Even any pre-any-history has it in mind. And all of 'this' history both draws life from it AND lives in anticipation of what 'is to come.'
the meaning of the world to come gives difinition to the worshipfilled life
It isn't that I don't understand what you said (indeed, you've said some pretty cool things here), it's that I don't see in relevance to the topic. That's all. But if I've missed something here--and boy, I do miss 'em--clear it up for me, please.
Starkman | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 4/11/2004 12:55 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Starkman
That's all. But if I've missed something here--and boy, I do miss 'em--clear it up for me, please.
As I posted:
quote:
Clearly, the Cross explains the OT in ways that the OT was not evident even to the writers and prophets!!!
Clearly, the world is evident as "sacramental" (in both the senses that its right use is worshipful towards God, and that respectul use is salvific in degrees--like land reclamation recovery for polution...it glorifies God.)
A good Pannenberg-ian word is "proleptic." You don't have to now; but if you want to later, look it up in Google with Pannenberg. | | Back to Top | | |
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Starkman
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747
| Posted 4/11/2004 1:18 PM (GMT -6) | | Echo,
The conversation is about how to interpret Revelation 17:8.
So again, I'm asking what does you post have to do with Revelation 17:8 in view of our discussion? You'll need to explain yourself here.
Starkman | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 4/11/2004 3:55 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Starkman
Echo, The conversation is about how to interpret Revelation 17:8.
So again, I'm asking what does you post have to do with Revelation 17:8 in view of our discussion? You'll need to explain yourself here.
Starkman
Everything in my initial post after "what is 'before the foundation of the world' can't be reduced to nuts and bolts" was illustrative. So its the "what is 'before the foundation of the world' can't be reduced to nuts and bolts" that matters. Don't take ""what is 'before the foundation of the world'" to be just names, or writing of names. Take it to be God's fellowship and the desire of God for fellowship with us. From our perspective we can call that God's 'eternal purpose' if we want.
Same with Albert's verse about Christ bein elect from eternity.
Time with respect to salvation isn't always so linear. (Sin: now that is linear--straight downwards!)
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Calvin_and_Hops
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 21
| Posted 4/11/2004 4:08 PM (GMT -6) | | | Oh, that's in a portion of scripture where various women are being used to represent different kinds of people or groups or responses. So what is "written" down is the kind of group. Its not to be taken as single mentions of individual people. | | Back to Top | | |
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