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| Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Questions about Christianity > Maximus on "particular" (for Tom, and the rest of us too) | Forum Quick Jump
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One Love
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| Posted 8/17/2008 5:50 PM (GMT -6) |   | While we're on that, Corey...what did you think about the "strange loop" in Paul's statement that I was talking about?
See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 8/17/2008 6:12 PM (GMT -6) | | And did my personal example help any, as far as understanding what I'm talking about?
See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 8/18/2008 6:51 AM (GMT -6) | | | To help...
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Let us now summarize the experiential appropriation of trinitarian life by way of the same three levels Torrance used to describe the emergence fo the doctrine of the Trinity. First, the spontaneous creative work of consciousness which is both autobiographical (involving the "I" ) and symbolically constructed (not merely awareness as shared with lower animals) is, as we have suggested, implicitly but not sufficiently perichoretic. It is already the bearer of despair. Second, intentional efforts to created a new frame of knowledge vis-a-vis any given situation or problem, as in Einstein's productive thought, approaches ever more profoundly, but still insufficiently, the perichoretic potential in the mind and self of the knower. Even great creative efforts do not elude despair. Third, for Kierkegaard, is the decisive level in which the Divine Presence is able, in turn, to indwell the self via the Holy Spirit. That is, the Holy Spirit generates an open-ended reality that replicates in human nature the Divine nature of the Trinity. Here the image indwells its Original and, at the same time, and because of that indwelling, becomes a reflection of it. The transparently grounded self is thus sustained as such by the Divine nature and at the same time is transcended by it as Original transcends image.
Knight's Move. "The Self's Experiential Appropriation of Trinitarian Life", pp.299-300
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Thinking about the Daniel and Chopin analogy...
Divine Presence <==> Chopin (Level A)
Human self <=> Daniel (Level B)
Human self "reflecting" Holy-Spirit-replicated divine activity <==> Daniel composing the "Global Warming" piece in the "spirit" of Chopin
See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 8/18/2008 6:52 AM (GMT -6) | | Here's the whole thread at once...
See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 8/18/2008 6:55 AM (GMT -6) | | Please take the time to read this. I really do think Meister Eckhart's univocal causality concept is relevant to what I'm saying about the bi-polar assymetrical relational unity thing.
See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 8/18/2008 8:00 AM (GMT -6) | | D: What I'm trying to acknowledge is the depth of the self-renunciation in Religiousnes A, unto all of the self-being laid "on the altar" as it were.
C: Okay, thinking of SK's favorite example of Abraham and Isaac, Abraham laid IT ALL down, but it was God's good pleasure to GIVE IT BACK. Why not think something like that happens in our own self-renunciation in the eschaton?
This is what Loder talks about when he says that the ego is NOT removed or absorbed into Divine Presence unto annihilation...but FREED and EMPOWERED THROUGH HOLY-SPIRIT TRANSFORMATION from it's attachment to self-preservation, self-centered self-reflection, and worldly categories. This is when the ego is TRULY LIBERATED from all the unconscious and subconcious defense mechanisms, emotional illusions, and past self-judgment and alienation that impact all of our despairing choice making. And when this happens, God Himself (Christ-the-Logos) becomes the center of all our "world-composition", and our egos are relativized accordingly, but not eliminated. This is when the human self is "self-as-spirit" that can "keep in step" with the Holy Spirit of Christ.
The human ego goes from "Me, Myself, and I" to "I, not I, but Christ-the-Logos"
See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. Post Edited (Divine Progeny) : 8/18/2008 8:04:46 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 8/18/2008 8:03 AM (GMT -6) | | But what about the "strange loop" thing in Paul...or the David/Chopin analogies? Are those making sense, Corey?
See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. | | Back to Top | | |
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Corey
Five with a Four-wing
Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1893
| Posted 8/18/2008 8:19 AM (GMT -6) | | D: And when this happens, God Himself (Christ-the-Logos) becomes the center of all our "world-composition", and our egos are relativized accordingly, but not eliminated.
Corey: There seems to be a leap between the previous sentances and this one. From this sentance onward, it feels like mere assertion and I (so far) don't see why it should be this way rather than the way Tom has described. In my view, a sanctified self-determining creaturely ego is compatible with the eschaton, even moreso, it's beautiful to God.
D: But what about the "strange loop" thing in Paul...or the David/Chopin analogies? Are those making sense, Corey?
Corey: My sense is that the "I, not I" language had a different meaning intended than the one you're describing. I do think you're correct in the intution that it's a statement of self-renunciation, but that still seems a different topic than self-determination. It seems fully combatible to me that one can fully renounce any less-than-best relationality AND YET still self-determine among the remaining options.
Before God, in grace, we will with all our power to be that which He shows us we are. | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 8/18/2008 8:32 AM (GMT -6) | | D: And when this happens, God Himself (Christ-the-Logos) becomes the center of all our "world-composition", and our egos are relativized accordingly, but not eliminated.
Corey: There seems to be a leap between the previous sentances and this one. From this sentance onward, it feels like mere assertion and I (so far) don't see why it should be this way rather than the way Tom has described. In my view, a sanctified self-determining creaturely ego is compatible with the eschaton, even moreso, it's beautiful to God.
What are you hearing from the statement above? I think you are misinterpreting something.
See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 8/18/2008 8:35 AM (GMT -6) | | D: But what about the "strange loop" thing in Paul...or the David/Chopin analogies? Are those making sense, Corey?
Corey: My sense is that the "I, not I" language had a different meaning intended than the one you're describing. I do think you're correct in the intution that it's a statement of self-renunciation, but that still seems a different topic than self-determination. It seems fully combatible to me that one can fully renounce any less-than-best relationality AND YET still self-determine among the remaining options.
I think we are too on the "exhaustive determination" tip to see what I'm really saying here. In Paul's self-understanding and self-expression, can one EXTRACT what is God's creativity and what is Paul's creativity from what Paul says? Nope. It's indivisibly related.
Please look at what I said about self-determination of the "self-as-spirit"
See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 8/18/2008 8:37 AM (GMT -6) | | We could do the SAME THING with the "I, not I, but the Father" language of Jesus...
See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. | | Back to Top | | |
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Tom
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| Posted 8/18/2008 9:30 AM (GMT -6) | | D: …the David/Chopin analogy…
T: Hey! That’s MY analogy that demonstrates my point! Hands off!
C: Okay, thinking of SK's favorite example of Abraham and Isaac, Abraham laid IT ALL down, but it was God's good pleasure to GIVE IT BACK.
T: The Scripture is plain. Abraham did not think God capable of not fulfilling his promise through Isaac. Abraham reasoned that if he killed his son, God would raise him from the dead. Abraham had to give up ownership of even God’s sure promises.
If this is a parallel to dying to one’s self and taking up the cross, then all it means is that we go from being owners of ourselves to being stewards of ourselves (and our gifts, and creativity, etc.). But that doesn’t entail the additional belief that God then determines everything about the self’s movements, choices, etc.
In other words, where we once defined God and attempted to define for ourselves the range of possibilities that constituted our happiness, we abandon THAT to God entirely. Only God can define/determine what ‘love’ looks like in this or that situation. But within the range of possibilities that God defines for us and not which we selfishly attempt to define for ourselves, it doesn’t follow that having given up the latter attempt to define the ‘good’ for ourselves we also give up determination of ourselves within that range of loving expression determined now by God. In other words, however narrow one defines love’s creativity (in terms of our created logoi), in a glorified no-risk context, one’s options for creative expression likewise narrow. But this is the whole debate. Why believe creative love would ever face only one possible next step in such a context? In such circumstances, I think I’ve shown that the very fact that God offers creation a variety of loving possibilities must mean God intends creation to finally determine itself within the scope of those possibilities.
Now, I earlier asked D to give me an example of a creaturely creative expression. Here it is:
“It's like the final stage of the Jesus Prayer where ‘Christ-in-me’ is actually DOING something in and through me, though it may not look like it.” God's Grace ACTUALLY WORKS in our members, synergistically. Let's say that I have an opportunity to do good. I ‘perceive’ multiple options about what to do for this situation. Implicitly trusting the Trinitarian Presence in me to WORK IN ME in Grace, Wisdom, and Guidance, I make whatever choices that my mind believes is appropriate for the circumstance that Christ-the-Logos has ‘gone before’ me (given his omnipresent reality).”
D has repeatedly said he experiences the uniqueness of the view he’s promoting. But I don’t see it in this explanation. Like Corey’s always said, I don’t think D’s subjective experience (at least as it’s expressed here) actually demonstrates the explanation he gives of it. I could describe my own subjective experience in quite the same way as D does. We each canvass the options and then “make whatever choice we believe is appropriate.” We go with the inclinations of our spirits, seeking the ‘witness of the Spirit’ in our own hearts, that sense of peace and rest in the Spirit that’s only found when we are in the Spirit. I don’t perceive and reason my way through to particular choices any differently than D does.
So....what we’re doing then is giving different philosophical explanations to the same experience. We live life the same ‘way’ but choose to explain it to ourselves differently so that we can say it means what we believe God created it to mean. And THAT, I think, is Corey's big point. We can't really prove outright which explanation is THE explanation of our experience so long as we're able to existentially find fulfillment in contrary explanations. If both explanations are biblical and Christ-centered GENERALLY, then that's the end of it.
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PotOnWheel
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| Posted 8/18/2008 12:02 PM (GMT -6) | | MAXIMUS on the Church building and its analogy to the present and the eschaton...
(Ouspensky, p.26)
The central part of the church, the nave, corresponds to the "holy" of the tabernacle, which was separated from the courtyard by a veil. Every day, the Jewish priests would enter it to bring the sacrifices. In the Church of the New Testament, it is the faithful laypeople, "the royal priesthood, the holy people," according to the expression of St Paul, who enter into this part and pray to God. This part of the church is therefore for those persons who are enlightened by the faith and who are preparing themselves to partake in the grace of the eucharistic sacrament. Having received this grace, they are redeemed and sanctified; they are the Kingdom of God. If the sanctuary represents that which goes beyond the created world, the house of God Himself, then the nave of the church represents the created world. But it is a world which is justified, sanctified and deified; it is the Kingdom of God, the new earth and the new heavens. This is how the Fathers describe this part of the church. St Maximus the Confessor, for example, says the following:
Just as, in man, the carnal and spiritual principles are united, even though the carnal principle does not absorb the spiritual, nor does the spiritual principle absorb the carnal into itself, but rather spiritualizes it, so that the body itself becomes an expression of the spirit, so also in a church, the sanctuary and the nave communicate: the sanctuary enlightens and guides the nave, which becomes its visible expression. Such a relationship restores the normal order of the universe, which had been destroyed by the fall of man. Thus it reestablishes what had been in paradise and what will be in the Kingdom of God.
The narthex, finally, corresponds to the courtyard of the tabernacle, the external part, which was reserved for the people. Today, the sanctified people stand in the nave, and it is the catechumens and penitents who remain in the narthex, that is, those who are only preparing themselves to enter the Church and those whom the Church places in a special category and who are not permitted to partake in the communion of the holy gifts. This is why, once the sacrament is fulfilled, those who do not partake of it are asked to leave, some because they are not yet members of the …
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One Love
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| Posted 8/18/2008 12:10 PM (GMT -6) | | Tom:
If both explanations are biblical and Christ-centered GENERALLY, then that's the end of it.
Um...okay, then. 
See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 8/18/2008 12:22 PM (GMT -6) | | Bruce quoting Maximus...
Just as, in man, the carnal and spiritual principles are united, even though the carnal principle does not absorb the spiritual, nor does the spiritual principle absorb the carnal into itself, but rather spiritualizes it, so that the body itself becomes an expression of the spirit, so also in a church, the sanctuary and the nave communicate: the sanctuary enlightens and guides the nave, which becomes its visible expression. Such a relationship restores the normal order of the universe, which had been destroyed by the fall of man. Thus it reestablishes what had been in paradise and what will be in the Kingdom of God.
Excellent example of the bi-polar assymetrical relational unity between Levels A (spiritual, sanctuary) and Level B (carnal/nave)...and how it works!
See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 8/18/2008 12:26 PM (GMT -6) | | Tom:
If this is a parallel to dying to one’s self and taking up the cross, then all it means is that we go from being owners of ourselves to being stewards of ourselves (and our gifts, and creativity, etc.).
In my view, this emcompasses a MAJOR psychological and perceptual shift when taken all the way down to the core of the self: the will and it's orientation. Like the core of oneself being turned inside out. Actually, it's seems to be more like looking into the deepest recesses of oneself and seeing God there, actively working, loving, and seeing in and through oneself. Perhaps that's why some of the saints and mystics pray like they do.
See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. | | Back to Top | | |
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Corey
Five with a Four-wing
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| Posted 8/18/2008 12:50 PM (GMT -6) | | D: Actually, it's seems to be more like looking into the deepest recesses of oneself and seeing God there, actively working, loving, and seeing in and through oneself. Perhaps that's why some of the saints and mystics pray like they do.
C: I don't think that metaphor (or any other where duality is merely apparent) is a necessary prerequisite to the sort of profound intimacy you describe. I myself pray and relate like this too, even though the Mobius strip metaphor doesn't help me much at all.
That's your primary concern, isn't it? Intimacy with God. And you've found this model helpful for you to that end. Good! I'm not trying to deconstruct anything that's meaningful and working for you! This seems to be a great conduit for you to praise God, and I would never want to remove that from your worship. I just don't think it's a model that works for everybody. For some, it might actually impede their worship, and I don't want that either.
Before God, in grace, we will with all our power to be that which He shows us we are. Post Edited (Corey) : 8/18/2008 1:05:26 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 8/19/2008 5:34 AM (GMT -6) | | Corey:
I'm still wondering how to interpret the Mobius strip, if not that duality is merely apparent. We can say "bipolar" all we want, but at the end of the day, there's exactly ONE side to the strip. Loder seems to say as much himself (emphasis mine):
In general, the model presents the asymmetric bipolarity of relationality, suggesting its inherent unity. The apparent two sides or edges of the Moebius band represent the two poles in a dynamic interrelatedness which via a 180° twist brings the apparent duality in to a paradoxical unity. (p. 55).
Pages 56-57 have the actual diagram (Figure #5) and a description that I'm assuming you've read. The main point is not about asserting only the mere appearance of duality, like what you are saying. His statement...
(6) The strange loop forumulation of the model is a representation of paradoxical unity. The specific structural details of the paradox vary depending upon the bipolar phenomena being modeled. The paradox originates in the tension intrinsic to maintaining the relational continuity and discontinuity between the two distinct levels, but it is sometimes distorted as dualistic interpretative frameworks exaggerate level distinctiveness at the expense of possible relational unity.
From what I'm gathering, a major point is not asserting the unreality of duality itself, more than not letting the distinction of levels (even ontological, because Loder says that the human spirit is ONTOLOGICALLY DISTINCT from the Uncreated Holy Spirit and independent in its functioning) remove the fact that "the relationship itself is the reality." (from the rest of your quote, Corey.)
Again, it's NOT about trying to implicitly affirm monism. It's about showing the RELATIONALITY between the two levels is irreducibly relational, leading to the coherence and openness found within the relationship.
Hope this helps.
See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. Post Edited (Divine Progeny) : 8/19/2008 5:39:35 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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| Posted 8/19/2008 5:38 AM (GMT -6) | | D: Actually, it's seems to be more like looking into the deepest recesses of oneself and seeing God there, actively working, loving, and seeing in and through oneself. Perhaps that's why some of the saints and mystics pray like they do.
C: I don't think that metaphor (or any other where duality is merely apparent) is a necessary prerequisite to the sort of profound intimacy you describe. I myself pray and relate like this too, even though the Mobius strip metaphor doesn't help me much at all.
That's your primary concern, isn't it? Intimacy with God. And you've found this model helpful for you to that end. Good! I'm not trying to deconstruct anything that's meaningful and working for you! This seems to be a great conduit for you to praise God, and I would never want to remove that from your worship. I just don't think it's a model that works for everybody. For some, it might actually impede their worship, and I don't want that either.
1) Again, the main point is NOT the unreality of duality.
2) Not every model's gonna help everyone, that's fine. If it's helpful, cool. If not, there's other things for other people. Personally, I (and LeRon Shults) do jive with it...but that doesn't mean it's for everyone. It's all good.
See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
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One Love
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| Posted 8/19/2008 5:44 AM (GMT -6) | | | Since we have similar perspectives (Tom and Corey) just with different philosophical emphases, I'd like to know how hesychasm intergrates into y'all beliefs. For my perspective, hesychasm is absolutely integral. Bringing the mind into the heart. Nepsis. Inner "stillness." The Prayer of "Christ-in-me" (Ware) Where does this come in with y'all's perspective? My quoted experience assumes the reality of hesychasm in it...
It's like the final stage of the Jesus Prayer (Prayer of the Heart), where "Christ-in-me" (Divine Presence) is actually DOING something in and through me, though it may not look like it. God's Grace ACTUALLY WORKS in our members, synergistically. Let's say that I have an opportunity to do good. I "perceive" multiple options about what to do for this situation. Implicitely trusting the Trinitarian Presence in me (The Father in Christ, Christ in me via the Holy Spirit) to WORK IN ME in Grace, Wisdom, and Guidance, I make whatever choices that my mind (in Christ) believes is appropriate for the circumstnace that Christ-the-Logos has "gone before" me (given his omnipresent reality). Before, during, and after I'm trying to do anything, I wordlessly beckon "Holy Spirit of Christ, come into my heart! (DP's Note: HESYCHASTIC WORK) Let your Will be done here right now." Whenver I do anything (even taking a DUMP), I say "I, not I, but Christ". When I'm cutting my toenails, same thing. When I'm working with a child, same thing. When I'm having sex with my wife, SAME THING. This basically gets to a point where the faithful trust in God's working (God's Grace and Christ in me) is sufficiently high such that there is such an intense awareness of God's Presence in oneself (and everywhere else) that one REALLY BELIEVES that God speaks, lives, and acts in and through him.
See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. Post Edited (Divine Progeny) : 8/19/2008 5:50:23 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 8/19/2008 5:52 AM (GMT -6) | | | See, I'm crazy. I believe that the human soul of the created human person is, by faith, the Orans-positioned "virgin mother" of Christ's Real Presence in us via the Holy Spirit. Just like in the pictures...
 
See what great love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is what we are! The reason the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. All who have this hope in him purify themselves, just as he is pure.
Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God. Post Edited (Divine Progeny) : 8/19/2008 5:56:00 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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