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Wahoo
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 142
| Posted 4/15/2004 10:41 AM (GMT -6) |   | Laila,
I was 18 years old when I came to know the Lord. At that time I was already making friends who were of the same faith. I recognize that as the Lord's subtle intervention in my life. I knew I had to ditch all of my "buddies" who were spiraling down the wrong path, and these Christians just kept showing up, all around me. I was invited to several different churches that totally changed my pre-concieved ideas about church. They were actually youth groups, which I didn't even know had existed. The girl I dated my senior year was a Christian, which meant no sex (Praise God!). Her youth pastor made me a youth leader. I can honestly say that since that moment, my participation in church was driven by service.
I got saved the following year at another youth group and became a youth leader there and started producing videos.
My college requires that every student fulfills "ministry credits" which means that a pastor or ministry leader has to vouch for time spent volunteering. This was required to graduate. I did some youth leadership and taught Sunday School and children's church. Every week I was preparing lessons. If I was on my way to church I was bringing illustrations. There is also a one-year internship required at a church. I did this in a children's ministry department of a 2000 member church.
After that, I went to China and had the most fun I had ever had since I became a Christian. That was in 2000 and after that I became full-time staff at Minnesota Teen Challenge. I travelled on Sundays with the choir. I tried attending church after I stopped working Sundays but I didn't fit anymore. My pastor asked me to lead the youth group, since I had a herd time fitting in, but I turned it down.
What I have had in my home, and in my community of riends has far exceeded what going to church has done. I have friends who pray with me and share their own weakness so I can pray for them too. One of them is planting a church(with no building, no programs) now so my wife and I cook and give rides to these sweet old ladies. I have had the opportunity to pray with a Pakistani man who can't find work. I hope to go job hunting with him.
I have had to get past the attitudes, but I don't feel an obligation anymore to go to an organized church. I have also let down some barriers that I used to have towards people who don't go to church. Some of my friends are very faithful to their church and when they invite me I go with them and I enjoy meeting people. It is very encouraging, but when Tuesday comes and I need to pray, I pray. Sometimes I get together with friends for coffee and we talk and encourage each other.
If we are fountains of living water, then we dont need to go to church to experience that. Heck, if we spent less time at church we could get to know our nieghbors that much more.
However, I have never advised anyone to stop going to church. This is just me. I am in no hurry to build anything. Everyman's work will be tested.
Wahoo | | Back to Top | | |
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Bobber
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 199
| Posted 8/9/2004 12:48 PM (GMT -6) | | Ive been seeing alot of things different about church set up or what constitutes a church. Actually there is only one church it is the called out ones and they make up people from what we call many denominations. We must I think get away from the concept of church as being a building. Yes I know most folks says yes it not a building but rather a people but still if you take off the wraps really of how they really think in real terms alot of folks whole mindset is thinking of the church as a building.
Another thing that saddens me is that men have set forth conditions on just who can be called a pastor, or be a respected Bible teacher. The first question some ask when they hear of a certain speaker is where did he study? What Bible college did he attend? Sound familiar? This is what they said about Christ and they even challenged his right to be a teacher of the word of God. Jesus never went to Bible college. Neither did all his disciples except Paul the Apostle! I find that rather amazing. We say today though if you haveen't passed through the training of our college you can't preach in our churhes! These are man made systems that men have set up and I think woe unto us if we see certain ones with say the gift but no...we make them pass through our schools before they ever have a right to share the word of God. | | Back to Top | | |
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1Heart
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128
| Posted 8/18/2004 8:51 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Wahoo
Laila,
I was 18 years old when I came to know the Lord. At that time I was already making friends who were of the same faith. I recognize that as the Lord's subtle intervention in my life. I knew I had to ditch all of my "buddies" who were spiraling down the wrong path, and these Christians just kept showing up, all around me. I was invited to several different churches that totally changed my pre-concieved ideas about church. They were actually youth groups, which I didn't even know had existed. The girl I dated my senior year was a Christian, which meant no sex (Praise God!). Her youth pastor made me a youth leader. I can honestly say that since that moment, my participation in church was driven by service.
I got saved the following year at another youth group and became a youth leader there and started producing videos.
My college requires that every student fulfills "ministry credits" which means that a pastor or ministry leader has to vouch for time spent volunteering. This was required to graduate. I did some youth leadership and taught Sunday School and children's church. Every week I was preparing lessons. If I was on my way to church I was bringing illustrations. There is also a one-year internship required at a church. I did this in a children's ministry department of a 2000 member church.
After that, I went to China and had the most fun I had ever had since I became a Christian. That was in 2000 and after that I became full-time staff at Minnesota Teen Challenge. I travelled on Sundays with the choir. I tried attending church after I stopped working Sundays but I didn't fit anymore. My pastor asked me to lead the youth group, since I had a herd time fitting in, but I turned it down.
What I have had in my home, and in my community of riends has far exceeded what going to church has done. I have friends who pray with me and share their own weakness so I can pray for them too. One of them is planting a church(with no building, no programs) now so my wife and I cook and give rides to these sweet old ladies. I have had the opportunity to pray with a Pakistani man who can't find work. I hope to go job hunting with him.
I have had to get past the attitudes, but I don't feel an obligation anymore to go to an organized church. I have also let down some barriers that I used to have towards people who don't go to church. Some of my friends are very faithful to their church and when they invite me I go with them and I enjoy meeting people. It is very encouraging, but when Tuesday comes and I need to pray, I pray. Sometimes I get together with friends for coffee and we talk and encourage each other.
If we are fountains of living water, then we dont need to go to church to experience that. Heck, if we spent less time at church we could get to know our nieghbors that much more.
However, I have never advised anyone to stop going to church. This is just me. I am in no hurry to build anything. Everyman's work will be tested.
Wahoo
Wahoo,
Sounds like what you have is a "church without walls". I think Jesus would approve. 
I have been taking a much needed break from church for the past two weeks, and will be doing the same thing this weekend. Sometimes churches, and church people - can be exhausting.
God Bless you as you serve Him in this radical, not so new, but exciting way,
Jo-Anne
"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."
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might-be-don
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 830
| Posted 8/19/2004 3:14 AM (GMT -6) | | Maybe it's a sign from God that this thread would turn up again today...
Last night at the dinner table my family decided that our return to my former church was just not working, in fact things have been getting worser and worser. We have decided to attend church with our daughter and son-in-law, a small ( 30 people ) Grace Brethren church in Philadelphia. While I'm not settled in my mind that the distance will not be a problem ( 20 miles ) , we're going to give it a try.
While all of the issues I had before about my current church had not changed, several had gotten worse.
They are purchasing additional land to build bigger barns at a time when they are under utilizing what they have. The 400,000 dollars for four acres of land could be much better spent. They have no missionary program, no outreach to the poor, no regular support for widows and orphans, nothing that reaches out beyond the monument they have built for god. The fancy building they worship in now lies empty 6 days a week and they think they don't have enough space. They just don't want to "dirty" the santuary with daily use.
They have begun to align themselves with the big name ministries that in the past have been cautioned against. Now that big dollars are needed to support the building, the methods used need to be big dollar ones. Bring in the big names and they will come, and give. The "pastor" even repented that he had not preached more on giving so that we will receive a bigger blessing.
The "pastor" has increasingly used his place in the church to proclaim that he is "the man of god" and we must obey his word. Where in the past he preached against folks who spoke by invoking "thus saith the Lord" , he is now using this to further his agenda. If nothing else, this disturbs me greatly.
So, I'm done with hoping that my presence will make a difference. Time to shake off the dust. Moving on.
peace, don
"Life is a gift from God, but the years have weight in them."
Terry Scott Taylor | | Back to Top | | |
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Bobber
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 199
| Posted 8/22/2004 5:06 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
They are purchasing additional land to build bigger barns at a time when they are under utilizing what they have. The 400,000 dollars for four acres of land could be much better spent. They have no missionary program, no outreach to the poor, no regular support for widows and orphans, nothing that reaches out beyond the monument they have built for god. The fancy building they worship in now lies empty 6 days a week and they think they don't have enough space.
Hi Don. I guess I feel very much the same way you do about concerns about building buildings. Im envisioning a church not as a building or seeing a need for one but just meeting wherever. A gathering of believers can meet in homes and if one home becomes larger with too many attending you create two house churches with a leader of that. The folks attending the home gatherings can come together as one large group perhaps in many different places…wherever. Isn’t this the way the early church functioned? Isn't’it strange we see no instructions by Paul the Apostle, or the disciples ever instructing us to build buildings?
It seemed all giving in the New testament went to help the poor and yes to help provide for those who share the word full time but no mention of the need for buildings? Scripture says they met in homes or they met outside in parks, or Solomon’s Porch which was like a town square, or they met in fields, dens caves catacombs or whatever but no mention of money ever going to build buildings. Can anyone see that not buying buildings might be a good thing? Can we see that this way might have a great appeal to those in the world actually which wouldn't mind meeting with Christians believers and giving but to know that you’re actual giving is going to help people, the poor and the needy and not going for stain glass windows…doesn’t that sound more appealing?
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1Heart
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128
| Posted 8/23/2004 9:30 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by sometimesisquint
quote:
Originally posted by might-be-don
Maybe it's a sign from God that this thread would turn up again...
So true.
I think many people are having difficulty with "church". My wife and I have been facing a "trial" of sorts with our church attendence. Because we left another place in the midst of various wrongs and pastoral impropriety (and because I am considerably more cynical about the process than my wife) we are now having even MORE difficulty finding a place to connect with believers.
I'm not sure I've ever WANTED to be IN "church," and I grew up in a Pastor's home. I often even remark to friends and family about my hatred of attending--I'm sure many can relate. While I still think fellowship within a body is of great importance, the concept of NOT attending an actual CHURCH SERVICE and still retaining your Americanized Gospel Salvation is one that most Christians I come in contact with strongly disagree. Like so many have said on this thread, I've felt guilt (and even heard some good-intended chastisement) regarding a lack of desire to be in "church". That seems appropriate considering the POINT of church. 
Anyway, I think I'm encouraged more by this thread than I have been in a while...at least in reference to this process. So for that, it's a good thing
Very good, in fact.
I have Philip Yancey's Soul Survivor - on tape. Haven't listened to it yet. Has anyone read that book? I love Larry Crabb's books on community. I guess I had "stars in my eyes" when I looked at community - even somewhat here. I think I have unrealistic expectations at times. I am completely honest, and expect others to be, I assume the best about people, hope for the best... And sometimes, it's like awakening from a dream...you pinch yourself and, "Ouch!" (it really does hurt, and the stars fade somewhat...).
I'm taking a break from church right now, a much needed one, and the thing that really concerns me (that scares me actually), is that I don't miss it, don't miss the people. I feel exhausted. There has been a lot of stress in my own personal life, and I think I feel a little let down. I've realized that community is a "not so safe" place at times. He is truly the only safe place in our lives.
I hope I don't sound negative. I feel like I am, because I've never been in a place like this before in my life, or in my walk.
There are times when I feel like I'm treading water. And, my husband and I are supposed to be pastoral care.
Who pastors the pastors?
If anyone has any insights, any thoughts that might help...send them my way - please.
'Nite, and God bless you all,
Jo-Anne 
"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."
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sometimesisquint
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 91
| Posted 8/24/2004 11:53 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by moon_river_j
I have Philip Yancey's Soul Survivor - on tape. Haven't listened to it yet. Has anyone read that book?
My mother bought me the book a few years ago. She felt like it might "help" me with some of my cynicism towards the church. It's a good read...more encouraging than challenging intellectually, but still a good read. I really respect most of the people he writes about, so that helped. I've had my share of Yancey for a bit, but this book was good.
quote:
Who pastors the pastors?
I'm sure anyone who either accepts the role of pastor or grows up in the home of someone who does understands this problem, which means most of the people on this board can probably relate all too well.
Most of my own remaining cynicism towards the church is fueled by the way my parents, my wife's parents and other friends and family members have been treated by Christians in leadership or underneath theirs while serving in such a role. The potential vulnerability is terrifying and still bruises me enough to hinder any desire to pursue full-time professional ministry and/or any permanent membership in a congregation. Most of my own personal social issues stem from this, even my somewhat trivial and sarcastic (yet, somewhat true) introverted reaction: "My problem is I don't like to be around people."
Not that this nod of solidarity offers anything encouraging toward your current situation, but sometimes it helps to know other people deal with the same issues. I know this thread has been beneficial for me in that regard.
And I think reading Yancey's book helps some. Any other books of relative use in combating resentment towards the church would be greatly appreciated (I mean, besides the Bible ).
 Chillin'...as always.
"What's partner yoga?"
"It's when you're two with the universe."
-My Friend Keith
---
When life gives you dish rags, you make...a kite that won't fly in the rain. | | Back to Top | | |
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1Heart
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128
| Posted 8/27/2004 9:19 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by sometimesisquint
quote:
Originally posted by moon_river_j
I have Philip Yancey's Soul Survivor - on tape. Haven't listened to it yet. Has anyone read that book?
My mother bought me the book a few years ago. She felt like it might "help" me with some of my cynicism towards the church. It's a good read...more encouraging than challenging intellectually, but still a good read. I really respect most of the people he writes about, so that helped. I've had my share of Yancey for a bit, but this book was good.
quote:
Who pastors the pastors?
I'm sure anyone who either accepts the role of pastor or grows up in the home of someone who does understands this problem, which means most of the people on this board can probably relate all too well.
Most of my own remaining cynicism towards the church is fueled by the way my parents, my wife's parents and other friends and family members have been treated by Christians in leadership or underneath theirs while serving in such a role. The potential vulnerability is terrifying and still bruises me enough to hinder any desire to pursue full-time professional ministry and/or any permanent membership in a congregation. Most of my own personal social issues stem from this, even my somewhat trivial and sarcastic (yet, somewhat true) introverted reaction: "My problem is I don't like to be around people."
Not that this nod of solidarity offers anything encouraging toward your current situation, but sometimes it helps to know other people deal with the same issues. I know this thread has been beneficial for me in that regard.
And I think reading Yancey's book helps some. Any other books of relative use in combating resentment towards the church would be greatly appreciated (I mean, besides the Bible ).
Chillin'...as always.
Ministry can be overwhelming at time, but the most difficult thing to deal with (IMHO) is judgement. I've seen more collateral damage from judgment - than anything else - in the church.
God Bless,
Jo-Anne
"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."
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