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GregBoyd
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818
| Posted 5/4/2003 12:39 PM (GMT -6) |   | My brother Don, first, that Ben Israel dude lands it! He hammers on the centrality of Christ as crucified for our definition of God and our understanding of life as his disciples. I mean, NAILS IT. I encourage everyone to read this chapter:
www.benisrael.org/OnlineBooks/truefellowship/true_fellowship_chapter5.html
Now, Might be Don dares to challenge me  with this: "You have stated that small groups have great potential, how about reducing the 5000 folk gatherings to once a month and give the small groups some real time to flourish."
Doc: Fair enough. We actually toyed with the idea several years ago. Decided against it because:
a) We didn't feel led to. Our weekend large group worship and teaching time seems to be consistently annointed and impacting people.
b) Relatedly, On balance, we assess that we are having an over all greater impact by having the weekend large group service than if we cut it by 300% in order to foster small groups.
c) Relatedly, in our cultural context it seems wiser to USE the large event to foster small groups than to SHAVE IT DOWN to foster small groups.
d) Relatedly, cutting our weekend services would likely result in a huge financial hit, requiring us to reduce staff and services significantly. All the good that is brought about by these staff and services would be lost, and we don't believe the gains (if any) would be worth it on balance.
e) Our experience is that small groups without trained leaders tend to not work well and have a huge attrition rate. We don't have enough leaders to accomodate the whole congregation. Indeed, presently we aren't keeping pace with attenders who want to get into small groups.
f) Its not clear that cutting out weekend services would significantly improve small group participation (even if we HAD enough leaders to accomodate people). We HAVE cut out a great deal of the activity of the Church outside weekends to free people up for small groups, and have tried to stream line much of what we do THROUGH small groups (viz. instead of having classes where individuals go to, we are working to bring the classes TO small groups). But we've found that the greatest obstacle to people getting into small groups is not time, but just hesitancy over *intimacy, *accountability/ *weirdness (many have had bad experiences with weird groups in the past) and *boredom (people not knowing what to do when they get together. So, we will patiently work to train leaders to overcome these obstacles, and patiently encourage large group attenders to get involved.
g) While we have to continually address the problem of weekend Christians, our over-all experience with the large group gathering has been extremely positive. For many, it has been a good stretching point from where they were at. It's been a positive source of significant change in peoples lives, with many coming to Christ on a regular basis. As people grow from this on-going experience, many eventually take the next step and get involved in a small group. While we only have about 30% of our church involved in small groups, its growing steadily. So,
if the wheel ain't broken... don't try to fix it.
There ya go my man. Wish you the best as you search for "the next step."
love and kisses
Greg
"The responsibility is with the chooser -- God is blameless." Plato, Republic, 10. | | Back to Top | | |
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might-be-don
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 830
| Posted 5/5/2003 1:46 AM (GMT -6) | | dOc,
I found the Ben Israel stuff quite interesting.
quote:
But we've found that the greatest obstacle to people getting into small groups is not time, but just hesitancy over *intimacy, *accountability/ *weirdness (many have had bad experiences with weird groups in the past) and *boredom (people not knowing what to do when they get together
You nailed it here. I am really afraid of actually finding what I'm looking for, but, I know, that I know, that I know, that living in relationship with one another in an intimate way is what God desires.
1 Corinthians 4:5
Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.
This scripture scares(compels) me, we either crawl out of the darkness now and face the light, or stay hidden in the safety of the crowd.
peace and love, don
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"No Rules, just Right" Outback Steakhouse | | Back to Top | | |
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might-be-don
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 830
| Posted 7/15/2003 2:10 AM (GMT -6) | | The journey continues...
Well... I think my break with my old church is finally complete. They are not calling me every week to solve their technical issues and hold their hand though situations that arise.
Iconoclast's dialog with Leila on the thread, www.gregboyd.org/gbfront/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1989
, has begun to have a large impact on my thinking. Need to read more of Mr. B's stuff.
I've been attending a church for a couple of weeks that on the surface appears to be quite different from what I left. No seats of honor for the staff and the preacher actually smiles. Maybe there is hope, thank you everyone for your prayers.
peace and love, don
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"You cannot step twice into the same river; for fresh waters are ever flowing in upon you." Heraclitus | | Back to Top | | |
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