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| Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Questions about Christianity > Drinking and christians | Forum Quick Jump
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June
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 105
| Posted 1/6/2002 1:42 PM (GMT -6) |   | quote:
Drinking moderate amounts of alcohol isn't bad, people still feel that they can earn their salvation by works. It never states that drinking wine was bad. Now Jesus smoking weed, what would be the benefit?
what in the world does drinking wine benefit? it never states that smoking marijuana was bad.
quote:
Could you imagine Christ walking around paranoid? "what was that?", "peter do you have any more loaves of bread or fish, I got the munchies", I know when I used to get baked, I would be to lazy to walk, could you imagine all that walking stoned? "Where we going again? Galilee, I can't even fathom moving right now, could you carry me John?"
i'm not talking about being a stoner. ya know, maybe just a little hit with the twelve. jesus was pretty radical. why couldn't he use what he created?
June
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n/a
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 218
| Posted 1/6/2002 4:17 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
maybe just a little hit with the twelve. jesus was pretty radical.
who takes one little hit? Did he or did he not inhale, if he did do it? Is this Jesus Christ or Bill Clinton? LOL.
Take good care, God Bless, G
Paul
Our natural greatness is seen as part of God's image, and that natural greatness has been conferred on us to enable us to achieve our supernatural destiny:to be related to God and to obey him freely.---Diogenes Allen | | Back to Top | | |
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Overcome
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 2
| Posted 1/6/2002 8:34 PM (GMT -6) | | Proverbs 31:4-7
"It is not for kings, O Lemuel-- not for kings to drink wine, not for rulers to crave beer, lest they drink and forget what the law decrees, and deprive all the oppressed of their rights. Give beer to those who are perishing, wine to those who are in anguish; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more."
I personally don't believe that you can justifiably separate drinking a little from drinking a lot. I don't condemn it. I don't know why Jesus drank wine.
Isn't THC addictive? Who cares anyway. We shouldn't consume anything that creates an altered state of consciousness. We shouldn't consume any poisons. God gave us medicines and he gave us poisons. He gave us lots of things. You may be able to justify getting high to people on earth, but what about your father in Heaven? | | Back to Top | | |
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Ryan_doy
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2002
Total Posts : 4
| Posted 1/7/2002 9:30 AM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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GregBoyd
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818
| Posted 1/7/2002 5:36 PM (GMT -6) | | The only mood altering substance biblical writers express any awareness of is alcohol. Some decide to abstain (the Nazerites, the Levites), but most say its good in moderation. All contemn drunkeness. David thanked the Lord "for wine which makes the heart happy" (Ps. 104:15) which must mean that its okay to use it to be point of relaxing you, but not to the point of drunkeness.
As for weed, its illegal, and the Bible says we should obey the laws of the land as much as possible. Also, its not clear to me whether one can smoke weed to be "happy" but not "stoned" = drunkeness.
So, all other things being equal (viz. you don't have a problem with modernation), I'd advise that it may be okay to drink in moderation, but not okay to smoke weed.
At the same time, I think its ludicrous that weed is generally NOT allowed for medicinal purposes. In fact, I think its very strange (and totally political) that we have a federal prohibition on marijuana and not on alcohol.
For what its worth,
Doc
"Three is the magic number, oh yes it is, it's the Magic Number" - De La Soul | | Back to Top | | |
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June
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 105
| Posted 1/7/2002 6:21 PM (GMT -6) | | when the bible talks about drunkeness, do they generally mean public drunkeness? i would assume so. i too am perplexed that medicinal marijuana is not legal. i know someone who would really benefit from medicinal marijuana but can't use it.
faithfullservant-no i don't hit the guange(ganja?). thanks for the dialogue
doc-de la soul has a new album out. maybe they got some three songs.
June
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n/a
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 218
| Posted 1/7/2002 6:36 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
faithfullservant-no i don't hit the guange(ganja?). thanks for the dialogue
Aint that somethin, I erase that post becuase I thought it sounded accusing, and she still sees it. I try to humble myself and I end up getting humbled again. hope you did not take that the wrong way, sheesh.
Talk to ya later
God Bless
Paul
Our natural greatness is seen as part of God's image, and that natural greatness has been conferred on us to enable us to achieve our supernatural destiny:to be related to God and to obey him freely.---Diogenes Allen | | Back to Top | | |
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June
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 105
| Posted 1/8/2002 5:28 AM (GMT -6) | | faithfull-still love ya. what's your(or anybody's) stance on medical marijuana? still no?
June
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n/a
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 218
| Posted 1/8/2002 10:23 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
faithfull-still love ya.
I myself have not personally considered it (I associate marijauna with old friends, eating junk food, and not wanting to go anywhere, tee hee.) ,but, I believe if it can help diseases like glaucoma, make clothing and rope, and whatever other uses there are for it, so be it. I hope that helped you.
God Bless
Paul
Our natural greatness is seen as part of God's image, and that natural greatness has been conferred on us to enable us to achieve our supernatural destiny:to be related to God and to obey him freely.---Diogenes Allen
Edited by - faithfullservent on 01/08/2002 3:26:22 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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pia†desideria
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 301
| Posted 1/8/2002 2:47 PM (GMT -6) | | Personally, I’m partial to an occasional gin on the rocks or mixed with roses, and dark red wines like cabs and zins.  pia
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“…through the open windows and doors came so much stimulation for thought and discussion that there was hardly time or love or zeal left for the task to be accomplished within the house itself.” § Karl Barth, The Humanity of God | | Back to Top | | |
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n/a
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 218
| Posted 1/8/2002 4:37 PM (GMT -6) | | You alchey, LOL, Just Kiddin, God Bless.
Our natural greatness is seen as part of God's image, and that natural greatness has been conferred on us to enable us to achieve our supernatural destiny:to be related to God and to obey him freely.---Diogenes Allen | | Back to Top | | |
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June
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 105
| Posted 1/8/2002 4:59 PM (GMT -6) | |
pia, never would've guessed. you no for marijuana too? how do you make that cross in your name? what does your name mean by the way?
June
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pia†desideria
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 301
| Posted 1/10/2002 3:09 PM (GMT -6) | | I haven’t been following this conversation, but I would like to share some observations on the topic from my own experience.
I graduated from Bethel where everyone had to sign a lifestyle statement promising (among other things) not to smoke or drink. If a Bethel student or faculty member got caught drinking, there are stiff consequences depending on the circumstances. Then I went to Luther Seminary. I had a class with a professor who was retiring and on the last day of class, a bunch of other faculty members and deans came and presented him with a 12-year-old bottle of Scotch. The academic dean said, “Can we open it now!” There are ashtrays outside every door for students and professors who want to have a smoke between classes.
Anyway, I started college at a state university and paid my way by tending bar. I was pretty pathetic—baptists don’t make good bartenders. Then I transferred to a private Christian college that had MUCH stricter rules than Bethel. In spite of the strict morality code, I was surprised to learn that a girl in my dorm was paying her way by working at a bar—as a stripper. The girl who was supposed to be in the next dorm room lived with her off-campus boyfriend most of the time. An RA got pregnant. That one was hard to hide. Anyway, that Christian college was the most depraved and decrepit place I’ve ever been. My gay friends at the state university had more personal integrity, self-respect, and were more sincere and serious seekers after God than many of the people I went to private Christian school with.
I guess in my experience, whether or not someone drinks alcohol has absolutely no correlation with their faith. It would not concern me at all unless the person seems to be dependent on drinking alcohol or on abstaining from alcohol in order to feel ok with themselves and with other people and with God.
Do you think anyone got drunk on the wine Jesus made at the wedding at Cana? Wedding plus good wine equals… you do the math! Most of them were probably drunk before they even got to Jesus’ wine.  This is one of my favorite miracles because it was Mary’s idea. Her own wedding was probably very modest, perhaps even private because of the scandal surrounding her pregnancy. At Mary’s prompting, Jesus’ very first miracle saved the host from the shame of running out of wine early—instead the guests marveled at the host’s good taste in saving the best wine for last. I think it is a wonderful way to kick off Jesus’ miracle-working minstry, and I look forward to the wedding feast that awaits.  Everyone is invited and there will be plenty of wine.
pia
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“…through the open windows and doors came so much stimulation for thought and discussion that there was hardly time or love or zeal left for the task to be accomplished within the house itself.” § Karl Barth, The Humanity of God
Edited by - pia†desideria on 01/10/2002 8:12:33 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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June
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 105
| Posted 1/10/2002 4:21 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Anyway, I started college at a state university and paid my way by tending bar. I was pretty pathetic—baptists don’t make good bartenders. Then I transferred to a private Christian college that had MUCH stricter rules than Bethel. In spite of the strict morality code, I was surprised to learn that a girl in my dorm was paying her way by working at a bar—as a stripper. The girl who was supposed to be in the next dorm room lived with her off-campus boyfriend most of the time. An RA got pregnant. That one was hard to hide. Anyway, that Christian college was the most depraved and decrepit place I’ve ever been. My gay friends at the state university had more personal integrity, self-respect, and were more sincere and serious seekers after God than many of the people I went to private Christian school with.
I guess in my experience, whether or not someone drinks alcohol has absolutely no correlation with their faith. It would not concern me at all unless the person seems to be dependent on drinking alcohol or on abstaining from alcohol in order to feel ok with themselves and with other people and with God.
pia, what is it about stricter standards that makes people rebel? why does it seem like so many pastors kids rebel? it does in fact seem like some of the christian schools are some of most dead spiritually. where do we as christians decide to not conform to world? we can live in this world and in the culture without taking part in all parts of the culture. drinking, as i mentioned earlier, is something non-christians look upon as something christians should not be doing.
June
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pia†desideria
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 301
| Posted 1/10/2002 6:51 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
pia, what is it about stricter standards that makes people rebel? why does it seem like so many pastors kids rebel? it does in fact seem like some of the christian schools are some of most dead spiritually. where do we as christians decide to not conform to world? we can live in this world and in the culture without taking part in all parts of the culture. drinking, as i mentioned earlier, is something non-christians look upon as something christians should not be doing.
June
June, you raise very important questions here. One way to deal with questions of conformity with the world is to create and follow rules. Another way to deal with the questions is to listen for the call and follow the Lord’s lead, walking in the Spirit. pia
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“…through the open windows and doors came so much stimulation for thought and discussion that there was hardly time or love or zeal left for the task to be accomplished within the house itself.” § Karl Barth, The Humanity of God | | Back to Top | | |
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pia†desideria
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 301
| Posted 1/11/2002 3:17 AM (GMT -6) | | June: pia, never would've guessed. you no for marijuana too?
pia: I’ve never been drunk (ok, there was that one time reading a book by the pool on a very hot day when I was sitting next to a cooler of complimentary rum punch—but that was an accident) or high.
June: how do you make that cross in your name?
pia: option plus t = † on a mac.
June: what does your name mean by the way?
pia: Pia Desideria is Latin for “pious longings.” A man named Jakob Spener wrote a book called Pia Desideria (actually the full title translates “Pious Longings for a God-Pleasing Reform of the True Evangelical Church, Together with Several Simple Christian Proposals Looking Toward this End” ) which called for the reform of heady, seventeenth century scholasticism by cultivating heartfelt faith—the pietist movement was born.
pia
p.s. I used to be ghost-dog-girl.
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“…through the open windows and doors came so much stimulation for thought and discussion that there was hardly time or love or zeal left for the task to be accomplished within the house itself.” § Karl Barth, The Humanity of God | | Back to Top | | |
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Starkman
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747
| Posted 1/11/2002 7:34 AM (GMT -6) | | OH MY HEAVENS....NO, IT CAN'T BE....GASP!....CHOKE....COUGH, HACK AND SPEW.
pIA (darned caps key) PIA USES A...A... (I, well - ahem - I can hardly say it)...A MAC???
Now there goes the neighborhood!
I never!!!
Starkman!
p.s. and...and I had such hopes for you, Pia! We all did. But...a Mac? Oh, I can't bear this anymore. For sooth, already!
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pia†desideria
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 301
| Posted 1/11/2002 8:35 AM (GMT -6) | | Eat your heart out, Starky!  pia
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“…through the open windows and doors came so much stimulation for thought and discussion that there was hardly time or love or zeal left for the task to be accomplished within the house itself.” § Karl Barth, The Humanity of God | | Back to Top | | |
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June
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 105
| Posted 1/11/2002 8:51 AM (GMT -6) | |
if drinking is okay for christians why is it ingrained in so many peoples heads that it isn't? that's got to count for something doesn't it?
June
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pia†desideria
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 301
| Posted 1/11/2002 9:53 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
if drinking is okay for christians why is it ingrained in so many peoples heads that it isn't? that's got to count for something doesn't it?
My own conscience is clear regarding whether or not is is acceptable for Christians to drink. However, if the fact that I, as a Christian, was drinking bothered someone else or caused them to stuble, I would abstain for the sake of their conscience. I would try to handle the situation the way Paul handles the question of whether or not Christians should eat food sacrificed to idols in 1 Cor. 8. pia
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“…through the open windows and doors came so much stimulation for thought and discussion that there was hardly time or love or zeal left for the task to be accomplished within the house itself.” § Karl Barth, The Humanity of God | | Back to Top | | |
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BBBCanada
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763
| Posted 1/11/2002 11:33 AM (GMT -6) | | Ohhhhh, the ghost-dog-girl days. (Sigh) I remember those days...(sigh, again)
Brandon
Edited by - BBBCanada on 01/11/2002 4:33:51 PM | | Back to Top | | |
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BBBCanada
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763
| Posted 1/11/2002 11:49 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
However, if the fact that I, as a Christian, was drinking bothered someone else or caused them to stuble, I would abstain for the sake of their conscience.
Romans 14
1 Accept Christians who are weak in faith, and don't argue with them about what they think is right or wrong. 2 For instance, one person believes it is all right to eat anything. But another believer who has a sensitive conscience will eat only vegetables. 3 Those who think it is all right to eat anything must not look down on those who won't. And those who won't eat certain foods must not condemn those who do, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to condemn God's servants? They are responsible to the Lord, so let him tell them whether they are right or wrong. The Lord's power will help them do as they should. 5 In the same way, some think one day is more holy than another day, while others think every day is alike. Each person should have a personal conviction about this matter. 6 Those who have a special day for worshiping the Lord are trying to honor him. Those who eat all kinds of food do so to honor the Lord, since they give thanks to God before eating. And those who won't eat everything also want to please the Lord and give thanks to God. 7 For we are not our own masters when we live or when we die. 8 While we live, we live to please the Lord. And when we die, we go to be with the Lord. So in life and in death, we belong to the Lord. 9 Christ died and rose again for this very purpose, so that he might be Lord of those who are alive and of those who have died. 10 So why do you condemn another Christian F82 ? Why do you look down on another Christian? Remember, each of us will stand personally before the judgment seat of God. 11 For the Scriptures say, "'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow to me and every tongue will confess allegiance to God.'" F83 12 Yes, each of us will have to give a personal account to God. 13 So don't condemn each other anymore. Decide instead to live in such a way that you will not put an obstacle in another Christian's path. 14 I know and am perfectly sure on the authority of the Lord Jesus that no food, in and of itself, is wrong to eat. But if someone believes it is wrong, then for that person it is wrong. 15 And if another Christian is distressed by what you eat, you are not acting in love if you eat it. Don't let your eating ruin someone for whom Christ died. 16 Then you will not be condemned for doing something you know is all right. 17 For the Kingdom of God is not a matter of what we eat or drink, but of living a life of goodness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18 If you serve Christ with this attitude, you will please God. And other people will approve of you, too. 19 So then, let us aim for harmony in the church and try to build each other up. 20 Don't tear apart the work of God over what you eat. Remember, there is nothing wrong with these things in themselves. But it is wrong to eat anything if it makes another person stumble. 21 Don't eat meat or drink wine or do anything else if it might cause another Christian to stumble. 22 You may have the faith to believe that there is nothing wrong with what you are doing, but keep it between yourself and God. Blessed are those who do not condemn themselves by doing something they know is all right. 23 But if people have doubts about whether they should eat something, they shouldn't eat it. They would be condemned for not acting in faith before God. If you do anything you believe is not right, you are sinning.
The highlighted parts mean that it is fine to do certain things. Just don't do them in front of a weaker Christian.
Also, doesn't Romans show that sin is corporate as well?
Brandon
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geej
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 93
| Posted 1/11/2002 3:48 PM (GMT -6) | | June
As the best friend of a PK (when I was a kid)I can speak to why kids (particularly PK's) can turn out so...well...wild. My friend and I grew up in an Independent Baptist church (fundamentalist to the hilt!!). We couldn't even wear shorts in public at her town! Everyone watched everything we did and reported it to EVERYONE! Luckily, my parents saw it for the BS it was and I lived in Stillwater not Hudson (15 - 20 miles away and across a state border). We used to have to sneak (even behind her parent's back) to go to a PG movie. I will tell you, being "perfect" all the time is mentally and physically exhausting. You get to the point where you just want to EXPLODE! You have no freedom, you're stifled and every move you make effects the career of your pastor/father (never pastor mother). Its enough to drive you away from God forever. It did for my friend...she is living an alternative lifestyle, is an atheist (I think) and utterly a lost soul (even career-wise). Living the life of a pharisee or strict PK SUCKS and is enough to make anyone run away.
I didn't drink until I was 21 but I partied hard (for a year and a half)(well, at least for an anal retentive Baptist girl), even at Bethel because I had to. I was smart though, and didn't party with other Bethel kids because I knew they'd rat ya out in a cold hard second if they were caught. Finally, I've made peace with drinking and several other things. I'm partial to vodka and...well..any mixed drink with vodka in it. I'll have one every couple of weeks. In addition, I am careful not to have anything but pop when I'm around people who could be offended. Moderation, common sense and self-discipline is the key with anything.
GJ
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June
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2001
Total Posts : 105
| Posted 1/13/2002 5:07 AM (GMT -6) | |
geej,
isn't it funny how pastors are so good at leading people to christ, but are sometimes so bad at leading their own? actually, now that i think about it, i bet pastors don't lead that many people to christ. its the people of the church usually.
i agree with you about the drinking part you posted. i thought the phrase 'finally made peace' was interesting. what does that mean?
June
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geej
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 93
| Posted 1/13/2002 6:06 AM (GMT -6) | | June,
I guess what I mean is that I finally made peace with the fact that I could have a drink, wear shorts, go to movies and basically have FUN without having to feel so danged guilty about it; after all, if its fun, its a sin isn't it?  Anyway, it is getting over the feeling that you are not damned to hell for being normal. Again, my bro and I were lucky to have our parents because they saw the stuff we were taught at that church for the B.S. it was (I think it took me much less time to figure things out than my counterparts who, in many cases, never did figure it out). The only reason we went to that church is because my grandmother (a force to be reconed with) wanted us in a Christian school; therefore, we went to the church.
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