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markus
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2002
Total Posts : 100

Posted 8/1/2002 10:54 PM (GMT -6)

Brandi asked:

quote:

QUESTION: Do you believe there are some positions (truths) which are ultimate? I am thinking that you do because you also said "Of course, there are major issues where we feel it is crucial to defend a position (e.g. baptism at birth or not), but I think it is important to be able to thoroughly share all opinions without stepping over the red line of judgementalism."

I believe there is an Ultimate Truth about everything - the difficulty is that we cannot ourselves be sure what that Truth actually is. We can only have our own opinion of it. This opinion is, I feel, for most people the result of a mixture of inner questioning, prayer, Bible study, discussion, and reading of others' opinions.

This is surely the very essence of faith? What we see (know) is no longer faith, but fact.

But I DO believe there are certain cornerstones of our faith that we cannot dispute, such as Christ's perfect sacrifice for the remission of all sin, His resurrection, His dominion of all of heaven and earth.

But even these are not conclusively known to be the Ultimate Truth - they are still faith. But if they are NOT the Truth then they amount to the greatest, most cruel hoax that has ever been played upon the human race!

But when we turn to issues such as how much God knows or doesn't know, freewill, the ritual of baptism, the timing of the sabbath, etc then there is much scope for many variations in thought without detracting from the very core of our faith (my thoughts - others would disagree, I'm sure)

And yes, I like the driving over the plains bit. I guess we often spend much time on a stable, level course. And I guess we have to then work to maintain our concentration so we don't accidentally slide into a ditch or hit a pothole - or indeed lose ourselves!

Thanks once more for responding again:)

Keith

markus
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2002
Total Posts : 100

Posted 8/7/2002 9:52 AM (GMT -6)

Whilst reading through some of Acts, I was struck by the following verses:

"And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common. And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all. Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need."Acts 4:32-35

This kind of total communal living appears to have been a very strong issue during these early days following the resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ, and yet, judging from the rest of the New Testament, it didn't appear to survive in this form for very long.

There have also been many similar attempts to live on this kind of communal basis throughout man's history - and never very successfully or permanently, as far as I am aware.

So does this mean that it was a mistake? I don't think so when we remember that exactly the same idea existed amongst the Israelites in the desert when collecting the manna. Those that were able gathered more than they personally needed and thereby compensated for those that were too frail to collect even enough for themselves. So that those that had a surplus gave it away and were left with nothing, and those in need never went without.

If this communal living was established by the apostles, why is it not still the common way of life among Christian communities today?

My opinion is that it indeed IS still the common way for Christian communities to live, but our own greed and hardened hearts prevents it from working properly.

The original approach was to pool and share, but, as probably happened with the original apostles, this becomes too cumbersome amongst large numbers. But if we remember Jesus' command to love one another selflessly then there is no need to pool before sharing except for the convenience of larger, longer term projects (e.g. Unicef, WFP, IntRed Cross, etc).

This voluntary sharing leaves us with a greater individual responsibility than we truly realise. We pay taxes because it is compulsory and regulated by law. But charity towards our brethren is voluntary and regulated by our hearts.

The Bible shows clearly that there are those who gather more and those that gather less. We therefore need to ensure that we understand in which group we each belong. And those in the group with surplus have the greatest need to ensure they are left with nothing after their own needs (not wants) are met. It is when those with more fail in this duty that the poor remain without.

The only way to be able to live in such a way is to surrender ownership of everything to Jesus. One may remain in possession, but not in ownership. Then, as guardian of Jesus' assets, one must be prepared to allocate them according to His will.

It is very easy to know what God wants one to do with His assets - and the strangest of strangest things is that one eventually comes to see how God even provides us with the assets that He wants us to use - and always just enough, never more.

May we all learn to live in the same communal spirit of the disciples, and even show to God that we do not need an imposed pooling system in order to give generously to those in need. And in return, may God show us the gifts that He has given us to give to others, which go far beyond mere money - and the greatest of which is love.

Christ's blessings upon all those with a generous heart and abundant love.

Markus

Matthew Timothy Short
Huh?

Date Joined Apr 2002
Total Posts : 635

Posted 8/11/2002 8:24 AM (GMT -6)

Keith: This is surely the very essence of faith? What we see (know) is no longer faith, but fact.

TIM: I believe faith is a firm persuasion, a conviction based upon hearing a report or promise, in contrast to a belief or opinion held in good faith, without a necessary reference of proof. Faith in God comes by listening to and the learning of His word, which is always in Christ, proclaiming peace, and the bringing of good things!

Faith is the persuasion of the mind that certain things are true and therefore worthy of trust, though other things suggest they are false, the ultimate paradox.

The full assurance of faith is in accordance with the evidence, upon which it rests, ‘the word of God’! Which is His knowledge always informing me, and His understanding comprehended by the ability He has given me, and His wisdom applied in me by Him! I can have faith, that faith is in the evidence of things not clearly seen, (i.e. His Truth) or fully manifested. I can find trust in the substance of that which is knowingly hoped for, truth, to reveal itself or rather Himself to me, in a personal relationship.

The firm conviction of faith produces a full acknowledgement of God's revelation of Himself, as being truthful, as revealed through Scripture and in the conscience of all humanity.

I believe faith comes from the result of teaching (Rom 10:14-17). Knowledge is spoken of as an equivalent to faith (Jhn 10:38, 1Jo 2:3) and the understanding of knowledge conveyed by teaching is an essential element of my faith. However, faith includes in it, assent, which is an act of the will, in addition to the act of the understanding. ASSENT TO THE TRUTH IS THE ESSENCE OF FAITH, and the ultimate ground, on which our assent to any revealed truth rests, is the veracity of God.

"Faith in Jesus Christ is a saving grace, whereby we receive and rest upon him alone for salvation, as he is offered to us in the gospel."

God’s Love,

Tim

markus
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2002
Total Posts : 100

Posted 8/12/2002 7:50 AM (GMT -6)

Hi Tim

(that's double happy, not a sign of any of my psychological problems!)

Yes, I agree fully, that faith is very much the essense here. God is love, as the Bible expressly tells us (as if we didn't already know it inside!!). And God's love flows through us along the conduit of faith - and faith also opens the tap allowing that love to express itself through our deeds - the question is how much are we prepared to open that tap.

There are many faces to love, and selfishness is when we try to corrupt this flow by trying ourselves to make love come to us and forcing it the wrong way back up the conduit.

We soon find through faith that even though we do not look for love returned, God's love is poured back on us from other sources as well as what we receive direct. It is no mere cliché that love given is returned with interest.

Thanks for the inspiration

Markus

Edited by - markus on 08/12/2002 12:52:47 PM

markus
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2002
Total Posts : 100

Posted 8/15/2002 6:32 AM (GMT -6)

Where is the source of the spring of evil?

Three scenarios:

A pack of hyenas have spotted a buffalo on the plains with a limping baby. They stalk it relentlessly, but the mother fearlessly protects her young. But everytime she fights off one attack, the other hyenas rush in and tear at the flesh of the baby. Eventually the baby weakens and collapses, the mother finally recognizes defeat, gives up, and walks away, leaving the hyenas to rip the carcass to pieces even as it squeals in its death. Their faces are all smeared with its blood. Soon they are bloated and lay contentedly dozing in the afternoon sun. A bird gliding past glances quickly and flies on....

A gang of youths hangs out on a street corner, watching two youngsters approaching. They stop them and demand money and start pushing the youngest about. The older starts to argue and try to defend his friend, but gets beaten back. The gang surrounds the youngest boy, suddenly a knife appears, there is a scream and blood spurting from the wound. The gang runs off as the boy falls dying to the pavement. Later the gang is seen smoking and drinking beer bought with the victim's money. They laugh as they recall the cartoons they'd watched on TV that morning. People glance detachedly at the group through the windows as the bus drives past......

They are a well-trained team and have practiced many times, but this is for real. The target building locks in the bomber's sights. The weapons are released. It is war. The woman knew the risks but had nowhere to go even if she had left her home as she had been told. She throws herself over her child as she hears the screaming bombs approach. The split second as her body is shredded by steel is enough for her to see her child's leg torn off, and to wonder how her child will cope, being maimed for life. The crew enjoy a game of pool after dinner in the mess. Someone far away in another world glances curiously at the pictures on the front page, as they fill in their lottery coupon....

Each person, each role; who is innocent, who is guilty - and who is ultimately responsible for evil?

Keith

markus
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2002
Total Posts : 100

Posted 8/17/2002 11:15 PM (GMT -6)

As the world seems to head deeper and deeper into trouble, we can ask, “Does God really have a plan that we can trust in?" The answer is YES, and it has been there ever since the Israelites were led out of Egypt, through the desert. His plan is very simple, it goes, "Those that have more than they need, give to those that are in need." Pretty simple plan, eh? - So why are so many ignoring it? By saying we can just trust God’s plan, we are suggesting that we all should just sit and wait for God to sort it all out, while we carry on stuffing our faces and inventing new ways to kill more efficiently.

We worry more about the strains of global caring on our own well-being and comfort than on the suffering of those that don’t receive our help. Why should we worry about our own well-being and comfort, when others don't even know what that might mean, or include???? Isn't that absolute double standards? Was Jesus concerned about his own comforts before thinking of helping others? Amongst other things, He suffered from crowds, political pressures, and compassion for the suffering He saw around Him - If Jesus suffered so, why should we expect to feel fine before we lift a finger to help others? Besides, when one is in prayer, one is in God's hands and there is no possibility of overload - not because the problems are reduced, but because additional reserves of strength and resources are supplied to you to carry on. THAT IS AN IMPORTANT OBSERVATION. How else do groups like World Food Program and Int Red Cross continually achieve what they do - their resources are endless through the strength and endurance of their voluntary workers around the globe. They simply do not give up.

It is certainly true that individual people are going to answer to God for any disobedience on their part in feeding the hungry, and clothing the naked. But this is only more reason to encourage people to pick up this particular part of their cross and avoid such judgement - for their own good if not for others. We all need to wake up in time and realise God's love commandments to each other through practical humanitarism. Jesus did not come here to seek the healthy, but the sick. And, contrary to our first impressions, it is not actually those starving who are sick - it is those who refuse to feed them who are spiritually diseased. Think about that...It is those who are uncaring who are the real target of our efforts for Christ - not the hungry themselves, God will look after those who are the real meek and poor in spirit in this world.

This world is a mess and on the verge of massives crises spiritually, environmentally, and socially. But this world is full of young, active, energetic people. These people are the resources of tomorrow - and who are currently inheriting this globe in this appalling state that we have left it in. IT IS IMPORTANT NOW TO REALISE that these young today will NOT be able to live the same cushy, consumer-driven life lifestyle that we have become used to. Environmental crises, inequalities, racism, energy crises, crime, and drugs will all culminate in a serious change in global structures within a few decades from now, if not sooner.

But these young people currently STILL HAVE an expectation of continuing, and even increasing, the prosperity they have seen us enjoying. If these people are NOT educated towards the desperate need to sacrifice short-term personal material wealth, and develop a humanitarian priority in its place - then I fear we are on the doorstep of a entire collapse in faith and conscience, leading to total social degradation and collapse. And what will we have?

A globe filled with bitterness and frustration at the loss of materialism, Drugs, drink and immorality will accompany epidemics of crime and brutality. Policing and justice will be non-existent as all social pillars come under the control of criminal organisations (as already manifest in many parts of the world today). Our lifestyle, with its growing inequality, environmental destruction, increasing consumption of alcohol and drugs, spreading humanitarian indifference and broadening acceptance of the inevitability of increased crime - is not sustainable. We have squeezed out of it all the material gain we can, but the pips are squeaking loud and clear - and it is our own kids who are going to have to clear up the mess. And they will either do it with a mission to save their world, or they will surrender and wallow in our mess, hating their parents for their greed and selfishness, and not even bothering to seek out a God - there would no longer be a visible reason for doing so - Satan's veil will then be fully drawn over the world.

We need to actively encourage everyone just to do their bit in overcoming these problems. If everyone who can - actually would, there would BE no large-scale problems. It is as simple as that. It is uncanny how God has provided sufficient of everything that is important for everyone on this earth. It is ONLY a question of fair distribution BY humanity FOR humanity. That is a very light burden upon each and every one of us and if we would only do our own tiny bit, there would be NO BIG burden for ANYONE to carry on their shoulders - that is fact!

Alternatively, we can just trust in God and wait. But I think we’ll find God has already been waiting very patiently for US to act - as He has told us to.

And while we and God all just sit around waiting, Satan is having a ball.....

Markus

Edited by - markus on 08/18/2002 04:37:04 AM

markus
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2002
Total Posts : 100

Posted 8/18/2002 10:42 PM (GMT -6)

It seems I am staying at the wrong hotel, I'm sorry for having intruded and having been such a bore - and thank you for having put up with me during these months.

I wish you all the best in your travels, it is time to move on and find a new home...

Markus

Springs
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 636

Posted 8/19/2002 4:31 PM (GMT -6)

Hey Markus,
I hope you are talking about just switching threads and not checking out completely. I have really enjoyed your writing and your heart.
Blessings,
Springs

Everybody just calm down... eat some fruit.

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