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Starkman
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747
| Posted 8/9/2003 4:30 AM (GMT -6) |   | | | |
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DLW
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457
| Posted 8/9/2003 5:11 AM (GMT -6) | | [QUOTE]dlw2003:
(responding to a remark that the description of events about Herod and Jesus' birth were not accurate)
DLW:it is well known that Herod was quite paranoid around the time when the story supposedly took place and so it could be true.
fiddlerzvi:Sure it could be true. And I could be handsome. Hey -- it could be true.
DLW:Well, we might give you the benefit of the doubt, despite our cultural biases.  Whether or not it is true has little effect in terms of how Jewish-Christian relations should be.
fiddlerzvi:Kindly interpret my coment as just a Jew asking two Christians how they decide what they consider to be scripture.
DLW:Well I grew up into Christianity and so initially I took it as given. Then, when I was in College, I spent a lot of time reading apologetics texts that got into the questions of scripture.
I presume you are referring to the NT, although I know that some forms of Judaism only accept the first five books of the OT as scripture/authoritative.
I accept as scripture because of 1. the evidence of its general historical reliability. I.e., we have four autonomous Gospel accounts that generally provide a consistent view of who Yeshua of Nazareth was and what he claimed to be. I have the historical testimony of those early christians that accepted persecution and martyrdom rather than deny the central claims of what Jesus taught. I have my own Swedish-Pietist-Baptist heritage where the teachings enabled us to undergo economic and religious persecutions back in Sweden. My great-grandfather gave up on being a wealthy farmer to be a preacher/church-starter after his conversion shortly after his emigration to Canada. He lived his life making very little but giving much to others because of what he believed in.
This selective perception, omitting the numerous instances where Christianity was responsible for much persecution and death, make me believe that Yeshua did exist and did make claims of divinity for himself that were fairly accurately recorded and should have a hold on my life.
As for what precisely consists of scriptures, the canon wasn't assembled until the gnostic heresy, which denied the goodness of the material existence that God created, tried to circulate their own Bible with most of the OT taken out. But we can construct what is currently the Bible from the snippets that were quoted from early Christian letters. As for getting the right set of books, the books on which there was some debate generally aren't the most important books and so I, unlike some Roman Catholics, tend not to worry about such things.
If you want to hear more about what Christianity means to me and how I do theology, I posted on this heavily in the Stand to Reason forum. I mention it because it delves into why I supplement my belief in Christianity with a very thoroughgoing belief in fallibilism that applies to the leaders of Christian Ecclesiastical organizations(even Tweb).
theologyweb.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?forumid=102
so that is why I accept as scripture what I do.
dlw
FiddlerZvi:Wow -- a courteous and informative reply to what was, in essence, a snotty question. Thank you. I wish others here had your attitude.
Obviously, I have a different take on it but your original comment -- about two Christians wanting to discuss their scripture -- is right on target.
Some tidbits -- if your interested -- about items you mentioned. Jews regard the Hebrew Scriptures (the text that your 'Old Testament' comes from as authoritative, but not all regard the entire text as infallible. However, all orthodox Jews do regard the first five books of the Hebrew scripture (the Torah) as infallible (or 'inerrant' -- whichever is the word in vogue.) Orthodox Jews also regard the 20 or so books of the Talmud as being just as inerrant as the Torah, so much so that the Talmud is referred to as the "Oral Torah" for historical reasons.
We tend to view the books of the Christian Bible in the same light that you tend to view the Talmud.
This may be more than you wanted to know but -- hey -- that's why G-d created the delete button.
Niebuhr thought that sustained moral energy in politics depended on religion's power to mobilize reason along with self-transcending love. The prophetic tradition, meanwhile, gave Jews and Christians some protection against the temptation to identify their social causes with God's will. Lincoln's second inaugural address expressed the prophetic insight, "The almighty has His own purposes." | | Back to Top | | |
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