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DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 6/6/2003 1:19 PM (GMT -6)

Don't you find it ironic that the Christians on this board would spend so much time and energy posting about whether there will be sex in the after-life and so little on how "evangelical" Christians generally have not developed the life of the mind regarding political reflection? Isn't this s'posed to be a forum on Apologetics where issues that separate Christians and Non-Christians are discussed?

If I weren't a Christian, I would find this inane. I guess I do find it inane.

It almost makes me feel like no longer calling myself an evangelical.

dlw

Prayer from Kenya

From the Cowardice that dare not face new truth,
From the Laziness that is contented with half-truth,
From the Arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Lord Deliver Me.

Edited by - DLW on 06/12/2003 7:11:48 PM

Sarah
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 5

Posted 6/9/2003 5:40 PM (GMT -6)

I agree, DLW. I was debating an atheist and recommended this board, forgetting about "that subject" being on here. I fear what he may think!

Sarah

Edited by - Sarah on 06/09/2003 10:43:38 PM

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 6/10/2003 12:55 PM (GMT -6)

Thankyou Sarah.

I am sad that apparently there are no non-Christians here on this board.

But maybe there is a reason for that.

Would it be too much to ask that the discussion on the ideals of sexuality posts be transferred to a more appropriate forum and the "Is there Sex in Heaven" link be archived so that it will not be displayed so prominently in the forum that should be geared at links that will be attractive to Non-Christians...

dlw

Prayer from Kenya

From the Cowardice that dare not face new truth,
From the Laziness that is contented with half-truth,
From the Arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Lord Deliver Me.

ReasonableDoubt
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 655

Posted 6/10/2003 4:20 PM (GMT -6)

DLW - I can't believe that for once I agree with you :) In my mind, the subject is inane as well, and embarrassing - feeding into the stereotypes of christians being repressed and closetly-obsessed with sex....anyway, I don't know how non-Christians, or atheists, would know about this board. If you want them to I'd suggest going to the numerous skeptical websites and posting this link to tell them to come and check it out . I've been on some skeptical sites discussing open theism - although most dismiss it a couple were very interested in it- wondering whether they could accept a different view of God than from what they were taught or believed. Although I do NOT believe in open theism, If it gets someone interested in God, I am all for it :)

People demand freedom of speech as a compensation for the freedom of thought which they seldom use.
--Søren Kierkegaard

might-be-don
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 830

Posted 6/11/2003 1:26 AM (GMT -6)

It saddens me that I have to say this... let's please NOT supress any conversation.

peace and love, don

---
"You cannot step twice into the same river; for fresh waters are ever flowing in upon you." Heraclitus

selah
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1210

Posted 6/11/2003 1:31 AM (GMT -6)

quote:

Thankyou Sarah.

I am sad that apparently there are no non-Christians here on this board.

But maybe there is a reason for that.

dlw

Maybe there are billions of non-Christians on this board and they simply don't want to respond on this thread?

Or maybe they are wondering about things like sex (which God created and which is actually beautiful) and they just don't agree or disagree with you enough to go through the trouble of responding on this thread?

selah
PS. WELCOME to the board Sarah. It has been around (and answering questions for non-Christians, new Christians, and old Christians alike) for years. I hope you are blessed in a balanced reading and consideration of all topics through time. We are just thinking out loud. Hearing your thoughts would be nice too! Blessings and love, selah

Then He showed me the river whose waters give life, sparkling like crystal, flowing out from the throne of God and of the Lamb. Rev. 22:1

Edited by - Selah on 06/11/2003 07:53:33 AM

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 6/11/2003 6:47 AM (GMT -6)

quote:

DLW - I can't believe that for once I agree with you :)

miracles can happen...

quote:
In my mind, the subject is inane as well, and embarrassing - feeding into the stereotypes of christians being repressed and closetly-obsessed with sex....anyway, I don't know how non-Christians, or atheists, would know about this board. If you want them to I'd suggest going to the numerous skeptical websites and posting this link to tell them to come and check it out . I've been on some skeptical sites discussing open theism - although most dismiss it a couple were very interested in it- wondering whether they could accept a different view of God than from what they were taught or believed. Although I do NOT believe in open theism, If it gets someone interested in God, I am all for it :)

Just as I am all for having Sex in Heaven if it gets someone interested in God.

dlw

Prayer from Kenya

From the Cowardice that dare not face new truth,
From the Laziness that is contented with half-truth,
From the Arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Lord Deliver Me.

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 6/11/2003 6:53 AM (GMT -6)

quote:

quote:

Thankyou Sarah.
I am sad that apparently there are no non-Christians here on this board.
But maybe there is a reason for that.
dlw

Maybe there are billions of non-Christians on this board and they simply don't want to respond on this thread?

Or maybe they are wondering about things like sex (which God created and which is actually beautiful) and they just don't agree or disagree with you enough to go through the trouble of responding on this thread?

selah

Which is more likely? I think discussing the Christian Ideals regarding sex is a fitting topic for this board, but then maybe the heading of the link should be changed. Or perhaps it would be more appropriate in a different forum.

There are lots of valid questions that interest Christians but probably wouldn't interest non-Christians. As I stated elsewhere, my ideal that I want to share regarding this forum is that it should be welcoming to non-Christians and be a place where Christians trying to do Apologetics can discusss their experiences and learn from each other.

dlw

Prayer from Kenya

From the Cowardice that dare not face new truth,
From the Laziness that is contented with half-truth,
From the Arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Lord Deliver Me.

Tigress
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1252

Posted 6/11/2003 7:41 AM (GMT -6)

Sex is a BIG issue to non-Christians and whether we talk about it being in heaven or not, I don't think it would deter them from taking this website seriously. If I weren't a Christian, I'd appreciate hearing Christians' views regarding sex and all it's possibilities. The fact that Christians don't want to talk about sex and all its possibilities simply feeds into the stereotype that non-Christians have about us as being prudish, thinking sex is dirty and has to be only one way.

But, maybe I just don't have proper boundaries. I was under the assumption that this site was more of a place for Christians to discuss together anything related to our faith and beliefs, and not so much a witnessing tool to the world. I guess I was mistaken. Sorry for messing it all up for everybody.

Tigress

The Angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear Him, and He delivers them.
-Psalm 34:7

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 6/11/2003 7:47 AM (GMT -6)

quote:

Sex is a BIG issue to non-Christians and whether we talk about it being in heaven or not, I don't think it would deter them from taking this website seriously. If I weren't a Christian, I'd appreciate hearing Christians' views regarding sex and all it's possibilities. The fact that Christians don't want to talk about sex and all its possibilities simply feeds into the stereotype that non-Christians have about us as being prudish, thinking sex is dirty and has to be only one way.

But, maybe I just don't have proper boundaries. I was under the assumption that this site was more of a place for Christians to discuss together anything related to our faith and beliefs, and not so much a witnessing tool to the world. I guess I was mistaken. Sorry for messing it all up for everybody.

Tigress

Let me apologize to you. You did not mess it all up. I am sure I am likely making too big of a deal out of this.

It is a valid topic for us to discuss about sex, but there are connatations to talking about something being in heaven that a Christian would understand and a non-Christian wouldn't so it might be helpful to retitle the thread you started as "Christian Ideals of sexuality" or something.

I am sure it will do just fine in this forum as there are plenty of other links.

dlw

Prayer from Kenya

From the Cowardice that dare not face new truth,
From the Laziness that is contented with half-truth,
From the Arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Lord Deliver Me.

Edited by - DLW on 06/11/2003 12:47:59 PM

Tigress
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1252

Posted 6/11/2003 8:01 AM (GMT -6)

quote:

quote:

Sex is a BIG issue to non-Christians and whether we talk about it being in heaven or not, I don't think it would deter them from taking this website seriously. If I weren't a Christian, I'd appreciate hearing Christians' views regarding sex and all it's possibilities. The fact that Christians don't want to talk about sex and all its possibilities simply feeds into the stereotype that non-Christians have about us as being prudish, thinking sex is dirty and has to be only one way.

But, maybe I just don't have proper boundaries. I was under the assumption that this site was more of a place for Christians to discuss together anything related to our faith and beliefs, and not so much a witnessing tool to the world. I guess I was mistaken. Sorry for messing it all up for everybody.

Tigress

Let me apologize to you. You did not mess it all up. I am sure I am likely making too big of a deal out of this.

It is a valid topic for us to discuss about sex, but there are connatations to talking about something being in heaven that a Christian would understand and a non-Christian wouldn't so it might be helpful to retitle the thread you started as "Christian Ideals of sexuality" or something.

I am sure it will do just fine in this forum as there are plenty of other links.

dlw

Prayer from Kenya

From the Cowardice that dare not face new truth,
From the Laziness that is contented with half-truth,
From the Arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Lord Deliver Me.

Edited by - DLW on 06/11/2003 12:47:59 PM

DLW,
I wasn't aiming this message at you, but at everyone in general. So, please don't feel like I was angry with you or anyone for that matter.

Tigress

The Angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear Him, and He delivers them.
-Psalm 34:7

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 6/11/2003 1:28 PM (GMT -6)

thankyou, but I still pray you would consider changing the title of your sex-link. It is quite easy to do. Next to the links there is an icon that allows for you to alter the initial posting, including its title.

I have altered some links I started to reflect how their content has changed with time.

dlw

Prayer from Kenya

From the Cowardice that dare not face new truth,
From the Laziness that is contented with half-truth,
From the Arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Lord Deliver Me.

Christian
Registered Member

Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 78

Posted 6/11/2003 6:41 PM (GMT -6)

"Billions" of non Christians, Selah? Since my time here, I notice that there are maybe 20 (or less) "regulars" and then at most, 10 or 12 every-now-and-then posters. Perhaps there are many more than that who read topics wihtout replying, but if there are only approx. 30 (I'm sure I'm off some, but I'm fairly certain there can't possibly be more than 40 or 50. Even that figure sounds fairly high) posting in recent months, there are most likely not "billions" reading silently. ReasonableDoubt, if you don't mind, I would be interested in the sites you referred to (in which others are skeptical of the OV). I agree with Tigress that the site is geared more towards Christian discussion than nonChristian. Look, there are men's sites, women's sites, teen sites, gay sites, single's sites, atheist sites, Christian sites. I suppose I understand where you are coming from DLW, but there are times it seems that you are overly involved with this site to the point that minor nuances (such as the title of a topic) cause you to give unsolicited advice to others quite often about what they should or should not change, say, or how they ought to title their topic. Did a quick browse through the "members" section. Only recognized approx. 25 names (approx. 7-8 of those I've seen maybe once or twice; this leaves approx. 17 "regular" posters. This puts into perspective the amount of posters, at least for me. It would be good to keep in mind also that not everyone reads every topic.

Edited by - Christian on 06/12/2003 12:00:17 AM

John Earp
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1715

Posted 6/11/2003 7:21 PM (GMT -6)

Sex is a fundamental human drive.

Christians are humans.

Christians (like all post-pubescent humans) think about sex.

Many Christians have questions about it.

I thought the topic was okay. I think it gave itself to a pretty simple answer--we won't need sex in heaven, because we will have spiritual bodies (1 Cor. 15). Perhaps that is why it seemed inane. Not everybody shares your interest "bigger issues," like economics and order, DLW. To each his (or her) own.

"The Discovery of new truth will modify old views and opinions, and there is perhaps no end to this process with finite minds in any world." Charles G. Finney, Systematic Theology.

revivaltheology.net

Edited by - John Earp on 06/12/2003 12:24:33 AM

selah
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1210

Posted 6/12/2003 1:58 AM (GMT -6)

quote:

"Billions" of non Christians, Selah? Since my time here, I notice that there are maybe 20 (or less) "regulars" and then at most, 10 or 12 every-now-and-then posters. Perhaps there are many more than that who read topics wihtout replying, but if there are only approx. 30 (I'm sure I'm off some, but I'm fairly certain there can't possibly be more than 40 or 50. Even that figure sounds fairly high) posting in recent months, there are most likely not "billions" reading silently... Did a quick browse through the "members" section. Only recognized approx. 25 names (approx. 7-8 of those I've seen maybe once or twice; this leaves approx. 17 "regular" posters.
Edited by - Christian on 06/12/2003 12:00:17 AM

Ok Millions.

I stand corrected.

Also, did you notice the word "maybe"?

Finally, it was a rhetorical question.

Peace and Joy,
selah

Then He showed me the river whose waters give life, sparkling like crystal, flowing out from the throne of God and of the Lamb. Rev. 22:1

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 6/12/2003 2:41 AM (GMT -6)

I've got three bagels left, and one thought.

(Who wants what?)

Back in Justin Martyr's day (2nd cent.), in the life of those who came to Christ, no one saw or heard the Gospel of John until after they had both made a commitment to Christ and acted upon it with a period of catechumen-discipleship AND baptism. Only then would they learn of the deeper life in Christ.

So...what's in Matthew, Mark and Luke that they needed to hear first?

Remember all the parables in the Synoptic Gospels. Those texts are not just history books. They are lessons. The quieting of the Sea of Galilee has a couple of lessons to it: First, the reminder that we are mortal and vulnerable; and second, that Jesus is Master of all Creation; third, that he is merciful and answers those who call out to him; and fourth, that we can trust in Him even things are rough--because as He said, he was with them the whole time...where was their faith?[/list]

THOSE lessons must be learned, outside and inside before the mysteries of John's Gospel can be begun. (The reason John's Gospel does not have the communion scene is that the WHOLE book is about communion by the Spirit with Christ.)

So, what can be learned from all that

with respect to telling others about Christ?

1. NEED.

2. LORDSHIP.

3. MERCY.

4. FAITH.

Starkman
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747

Posted 6/12/2003 3:30 AM (GMT -6)

Amen, PoW!

Starkman

Am I right? I say, am I right?
Charlie Brown

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 6/12/2003 8:50 AM (GMT -6)

quote:

I agree with Tigress that the site is geared more towards Christian discussion than nonChristian. Look, there are men's sites, women's sites, teen sites, gay sites, single's sites, atheist sites, Christian sites.

Yes, but the original purpose of this forum was to equip us for doing apologetics as is illustrated in Letters from a Skeptic. That requires that we get input from non-Christians or deal with topics that are more likely to be interesting from a non-Christian perspective.

There is a status quo and then there are aspirations for the future. I think we should aspire to getting more non-Christians to interact with this discussion board.

quote:
I suppose I understand where you are coming from DLW, but there are times it seems that you are overly involved with this site to the point that minor nuances (such as the title of a topic) cause you to give unsolicited advice to others quite often about what they should or should not change, say, or how they ought to title their topic.

Well titles are what people see when browsing. They can make them decide whether to stay or whether to browse elsewhere. So I don't think it is a minor nuance and I wasn't alone in my concern about whether a post that would appeal solely to devout Christians would turn off non-Christians.

John Earp,
well my biases regarding what I think are pressing topics for Christians to deal with may play a part in me judging a topic as inane. But consider what came of the topic, not that much? Now consider how much more could come if we took serious my posting on the ineptness of Evangelicals regarding politics:potentially a lot more. Whether there is sex in heaven does not serve as a barrier to belief for non-Christians. The development of habits of reflection over politics does... That is not my opinion, but what I have learned from my interactions with non-Christians in academia.

dlw

Prayer from Kenya

From the Cowardice that dare not face new truth,
From the Laziness that is contented with half-truth,
From the Arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Lord Deliver Me.

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 6/12/2003 9:17 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
DLW: That requires that we get input from non-Christians or deal with topics that are more likely to be interesting from a non-Christian perspective.

PoW: I propose NEED, LORDSHIP, MERCY, and FAITH.

Any other ideas?

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 6/12/2003 10:03 AM (GMT -6)

Those sound great, Pow.
dlw

Prayer from Kenya

From the Cowardice that dare not face new truth,
From the Laziness that is contented with half-truth,
From the Arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Lord Deliver Me.

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 6/12/2003 10:06 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Those sound great, Pow.
dlw

If so, then start threads along those lines.

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 6/12/2003 10:12 AM (GMT -6)

Saying something sounds great does not mean that lines that have a different starting point are not great. When I start a line here, I think about my experiences with non-Christians and whether it would be of interest to them.

dlw

Prayer from Kenya

From the Cowardice that dare not face new truth,
From the Laziness that is contented with half-truth,
From the Arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Lord Deliver Me.

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 6/12/2003 10:21 AM (GMT -6)

ps, Tigress,

we don't need to remove the link. There are some good thoughts on Christian Ideals of Sexuality.

Perhaps, particular posts, including some of mine, could be deleted to remove some of the more pedantic aspects of the link.

dlw

Prayer from Kenya

From the Cowardice that dare not face new truth,
From the Laziness that is contented with half-truth,
From the Arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Lord Deliver Me.

Tigress
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1252

Posted 6/12/2003 12:04 PM (GMT -6)

quote:

ps, Tigress,

we don't need to remove the link. There are some good thoughts on Christian Ideals of Sexuality.

Perhaps, particular posts, including some of mine, could be deleted to remove some of the more pedantic aspects of the link.

dlw

Prayer from Kenya

From the Cowardice that dare not face new truth,
From the Laziness that is contented with half-truth,
From the Arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Lord Deliver Me.

I know, but in the interest of peace and unity, I think it's a good idea to wipe the whole slate clean. Plus, it would be too much work for Adiaphora to try weed out the bad from the good. I'd rather just let her get rid of it all so there won't be a record of it for anyone to remember the hard feelings, and so that non-Christians don't become more confused by the statements that are left behind.

Tigress

The Angel of the Lord encamps around those who fear Him, and He delivers them.
-Psalm 34:7

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 6/12/2003 12:09 PM (GMT -6)

thy will be done.
dlw

Prayer from Kenya

From the Cowardice that dare not face new truth,
From the Laziness that is contented with half-truth,
From the Arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Lord Deliver Me.

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