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Jim Mottl
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 57
| Posted 6/16/2004 7:42 PM (GMT -6) |   | quote:
Originally posted by Eli
Ok... I'm a dedicated Christian. I love my Lord and He loves me... Amen.
I just thought I'd throw that out there before I asked this so you didn't think you were trying to convert me ;).
I believe the Bible is the inspired word of God. I also believe it to be true. But I don't know WHY I believe it. It's probably a scripture reference, but if it is... that seems wrong. I mean the NT was written as letters so I doubt Paul or any of the other authors wrote in reference to the rest of the Bible as being inspired and totally true. So why do we believe that? And again, I just want to point out that I DO believe that. I just want to be able to defend it if I get approached, because I can safely say I will get approached ;), and faith alone doesn't mean jack to anyone who doesn't believe it to begin with. So, what say you?
Hi there. I have basically the same feeling. I mean, I just believe the stuff, nothing could get me not to believe it. At a time when I was just starting to read the Bible after I was saved, a Jehovah's witness started coming to my house. I'm glad this happened because it forced me(not that I didn't want to anyway) to actually do some study. I know why I believe now. The Bible is objective history! The stuff really happened, that's why we believe it. And God has revealed it to us through His Spirit! And by the way, the NT writers CONSTANTLY quoted OT as SCRIPTURE. Even Jesus quoted OT as being the word of God. The OT is full of stuff like, "Thus saith the LORD". You can't have the NT without the OT. The 2 are inseperable! I could list dozens of verses where they quote OT. Even the NT writers like Paul knew that what they were writting was from God. I can recall Paul saying several times through this letters that what he was writting was from God. Just start searching the Scriptures!!! When the JW was telling me that there was no Trinity or that Jesus was not God, I would search the Scriptures with this in mind, and the Word would just come alive to me, and I would start seeing and understanding the Word.
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JIM | | Back to Top | | |
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rsirkel
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2002
Total Posts : 183
| Posted 6/17/2004 7:29 AM (GMT -6) | | Hi Eli
quote:
I just want to be able to defend it if I get approached, because I can safely say I will get approached ;), and faith alone doesn't mean jack to anyone who doesn't believe it to begin with. So, what say you?
Ron
I think we begin to hold to the scriptures because the Holy Spirit has witnessed to our heart they are truth. No one can say Jesus is Lord but by the Holy Spirit. He will testify, guide, bring to remembrance, convict the world of sin, glorify Jesus, ect. So if you are approached :) trust that the Spirit is working and will give witness in the heart of the one who hears the word of truth you share, to bring them to trust in the faithfulness of God revealed in the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus. Even if you have to wait (being steadfast) a long, long, time.
might-be-don
quote:
How 'bout this...
From my position as a Gentile ( I'm not Jewish ) believer, what possible attraction do the Jewish scriptures have for me ? I can see the weight they might have for a Jewish believer, but why should I find them convincing ?
Ron
If you were to see (by the spirit of wisdom and revelation) in the story of Abraham and Jesus, a faith that transmits the blessing of God to you, a Gentile, it might make you want to see more of His acts of faithfulness in doing what He promised. (The rest of the story as Harvey says)Again, I think we are persuaded by the Holy Spirit. We just kind of co-labor with God in sharing the good news. You know all this. Peace | | Back to Top | | |
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rsirkel
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2002
Total Posts : 183
| Posted 6/17/2004 8:41 AM (GMT -6) | |
SwanLake
quote:
I always wondered about this and calvinists and their "total depravity" belief. If they are totally depraved, how do they know they are eternally secure or even "saved" at all?
Ron
I take it you are affirming that it would take the ministry of the Holy Spirit for man to know anything in truth about the things of God?
SwanLake
quote:
If they say the Holy Spirit witnesses to their heart, couldn't that be their totally depraved nature fooling them?
Ron
You are jesting, right? I'm kinda slow. Its so easy to misunderstand someone. Are you a Friend?  | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 6/17/2004 8:43 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by might-be-don
How 'bout this...
From my position as a Gentile ( I'm not Jewish ) believer, what possible attraction do the Jewish scriptures have for me ? I can see the weight they might have for a Jewish believer, but why should I find them convincing ?
peace, don
Of which does the following refer?
quote:
1st Corinthians 1:30-31 "But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who was made unto us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption: that, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord."
Iranaeus wrote of Christ crucified according to the Scriptures. The Scriptures were the OT.
Problem is, that Protestants want to interpret the New through the Old. Correctly, Irenaeus spoke of the New unveiling the revelation that was hidden in the Old. Christ Himself is the revelation of that mystery. | | Back to Top | | |
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SwanLake
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 116
| Posted 6/17/2004 9:06 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by rsirkel
Ron
I take it you are affirming that it would take the ministry of the Holy Spirit for man to know anything in truth about the things of God?
Let's limit this to only spiritual things, I think we agree on that.
If I cannot understand or trust anything about spiritual things that my mind ponders due to "total depravity", there's nothing I can trust to think God has "broken" through to me using His spirit.
Hence belief that people are "totally depraved" from birth negates Romans 1:20* and we're all left at the starting gate. That make sense?
the T from TULIP cannot logically stand with the P.
(None of TULIP is true, imho)
There has to be a step where our natural mind says, "this book, these words are true and I'm going to assent", right?
quote:
SwanLake: If they say the Holy Spirit witnesses to their heart, couldn't that be their totally depraved nature fooling them?
Ron:You are jesting, right? I'm kinda slow. Its so easy to misunderstand someone. Are you a Friend?
No I'm not jesting. I don't belief in "total depravity due to having been born".
I believe the future is open and people are sinners because..... they've sinned. While it's difficult to seek God, He rewards those who do and His salvation is available only through Jesus.
*For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
Sorry, I didn't mean to sidetrack your post, I just have always wondered at the illogic of calvinists.
"We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients.
But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces,
and this is what annoys me." -- Jack Handey | | Back to Top | | |
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rsirkel
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2002
Total Posts : 183
| Posted 6/17/2004 9:33 AM (GMT -6) | | SwanLake
quote:
I believe the future is open and people are sinners because..... they've sinned. While it's difficult to seek God, He rewards those who do and His salvation is available only through Jesus.
Hi Friend
I agree with you, we are just focusing on different aspects of salvation.
Lets take what you said above and what I said and look at the process that Cornelius went through in Acts 10. He sought God (your focus), God rewarded him, sent for Peter, Peter preached the gospel, the Holy Ghost fell on them. The Father drew to His Son, Spirit made Peter go, Jesus was preached, God grasped the whole crew by His Spirit (My focus). Sooo good.
Peace | | Back to Top | | |
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Jim Mottl
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 57
| Posted 6/17/2004 10:10 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by might-be-don
How 'bout this...
From my position as a Gentile ( I'm not Jewish ) believer, what possible attraction do the Jewish scriptures have for me ? I can see the weight they might have for a Jewish believer, but why should I find them convincing ?
peace, don
Dude, the whole OT is about preserving the line of the Messiah. Without Abraham there is no seed(Messiah), without the seed, the nations cannot be blessed. So your position as a gentile believer is that you are indebted to the Jew!! For if it was not for the Jew, you would not have salvation. That's where the whole thing started, man.
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Jim | | Back to Top | | |
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feelinahole
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754
| Posted 6/17/2004 10:43 AM (GMT -6) | | | Eli: "Across The Spectrum," by Doctor Boyd and Paul Eddy, is a good place to start with how Christians view scripture and why (it has other issues in it as well). Its a good book to pick up. | | Back to Top | | |
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