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Ichabod
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 5

Posted 7/8/2004 5:05 AM (GMT -6)

So, there are 66 books in the Bible. The Catholic Bible has more, the Etheopian Bible has 66 in it's old testament alone. Why should I believe the 66 book Bible is the wholly inspired Word of God? It was infalliable man that decided Jude would be included and not the other letter that Jude refers to. Why should I believe that it should be 66 and not 67 or 167? I don't trust man now. Why should I trust the decisions of men 1700 years dead?

SwanLake
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 116

Posted 7/8/2004 5:29 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by Ichabod

So, there are 66 books in the Bible. The Catholic Bible has more, the Etheopian Bible has 66 in it's old testament alone. Why should I believe the 66 book Bible is the wholly inspired Word of God? It was infalliable man that decided Jude would be included and not the other letter that Jude refers to. Why should I believe that it should be 66 and not 67 or 167? I don't trust man now. Why should I trust the decisions of men 1700 years dead?

You don't trust people, the books they write or any decisions they make? Ever?

"We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients.
But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces,
and this is what annoys me." -- Jack Handey

Sahid
Megistered Rember

Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 2013

Posted 7/8/2004 8:40 AM (GMT -6)

The scripture is God-breathed (or inspired), useful, and sacred. I don't know where it says it is infallible or exactly as God intended it to be. I also don't know any Chistian leaders (though I'm sure they're out there) who forbid the reading of "extra-canonical" literature. In my life I know of some very "worldly" things that God has worked through in a "sacred" and useful way.

Watch me fly. Freedom like wings and I will use them. Freedom like wings and I will spread them wide. - Stavesacre

Tom
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353

Posted 7/8/2004 10:17 AM (GMT -6)

A good question Ichabod, and not altogether simple to answer.

I feel like saying the very question proves that we've misunderstood what the Bible is for anyhow. I mean, we have this book we believe BY FAITH is uniquely divinely inspired, i.e., that God is in THIS book speaking to us in a way he's not in any other book. And the authority of this book we elevate above human authorities. Yet it is the very human authorities that bown the knee to this book who, operating with an inspiration NOBODY wants to claim is equal to that of the book itself, decide which writings qualify as members of the book. Interesting. See how we just backed outselves into a corner? I honestly don't know how to answer you, Ichabod, except to say that if you read the books that Catholics have in addition to Protestants and are prepared to believe and embrace whatever is necessary to being Catholic, then go for it. Likewise Ethiopian. But for sure the Reformers were well-read in the Dutero-Canonical books (a slam on modern day Protestants) and they benefitted from them spiritually even if they didn't place them on the same level as the 66 books. Read 'em all Ichabod. Benefit from them all as you're able.

But you know, in all honesty, it seems to me that many Christians give as much weight to popular writers and speakers today as they do the Bible. They wouldn't admit that perhaps. It's just my uneducated guess.

Tom

Truth Aficionado
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544

Posted 7/8/2004 10:30 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by TGB

But you know, in all honesty, it seems to me that many Christians give as much weight to popular writers and speakers today as they do the Bible. They wouldn't admit that perhaps. It's just my uneducated guess.

Tom

Hey wait a minute fellow, are U knocking my practice of Boyduism.

SwanLake
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 116

Posted 7/8/2004 1:21 PM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by sparknheart

quote:
Originally posted by TGB

But you know, in all honesty, it seems to me that many Christians give as much weight to popular writers and speakers today as they do the Bible. They wouldn't admit that perhaps. It's just my uneducated guess.

Tom

Hey wait a minute fellow, are U knocking my practice of Boyduism.

We, of the sacred order of TBG, condemn you heretic for daring to deem yourself worthy of answering our supreme master, er, TGB. Now you must DIE, infidel.

Can you pencil us in for next Tuesday? Not good?

How about Wednesday?

Thursday?

August sometime???? Sad

"We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients.
But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces,
and this is what annoys me." -- Jack Handey

Tom
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353

Posted 7/8/2004 6:00 PM (GMT -6)

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 7/9/2004 2:09 AM (GMT -6)

I grew up Baptist, attend a Reformed church, but read a lot of Orthodox writers. They say that the 66 are "it" and said so a long time ago. But other books are "benefitial."

GregBoyd
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818

Posted 7/9/2004 1:17 PM (GMT -6)

I refute you thus:

"God said it
I believe it
That settles it for me.
Though some may doubt
that his word is true
I 've chosen to believe it
now how about you?
God said
I believe it
And that SETTLES IT FOR ME."

Great ditty. A bit circular, but all the same.

I think a pretty good case can be made that the early church made the right decisions about what got in and what didn't. They had the most to loose by being wrong. And at some point we have to trust providence. But this, of course, doesn't at all address the dispute between Catholics, Protestants and Orthodox on various books -- unless we suspect that maybe it was part of providence to give us something we couldn't prove or figure out so we'd have to learn to love one another despite disagreements.

And THAT isn't as dumb a suggestion as it at first sounds.

Where there is ambiguity, one must rely on love.

Greg

"The responsibility is with the chooser -- God is blameless." Plato, Republic, 10.

1Heart
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128

Posted 7/17/2004 11:16 PM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by GregBoyd

Where there is ambiguity, one must rely on love.

Greg

I like that; "Where there is ambiguity, one must rely on love". Great thought!

Don't you think that people read books voraciously because they are wanting to be disciples? Or perhaps it is a hunger for deeper relationship? Or perhaps a lack of Bible Study? Or...? Well, whatever brings people into a closer, more vital relationship with the Father - is good by me! (Even a little cataphatic prayer now and then!)

Eyebrow

God Bless,
Jo-Anne

"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."

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