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| Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Questions about Christianity > Conversations with a skeptic -- what now? | Forum Quick Jump
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 9/30/2004 3:45 AM (GMT -6) |   | quote:
Tom: Leila...don't listen to anyone who tells you that you either don't love him or haven't shown him you love him if you don't approach witnessing to him the way they think you should...
...or the way they think the Bible tells you you should. The Bible doesn't tell you in black in white how best to approach YOUR father. Read it as much as you like, but you won't find anything THAT specific. You will find what you already know: that God loves your father and hasn't predetermined him to hell and that God very much wants your father to have the faith he says he'd like to have (of which truths some on this board cannot assure you or your father). But how best to approach your Dad is nowhere found in the Bible. If it's true that you are the only person, or one of a very few number of people, who knows Christ and is close to your father, then you may want to consider taking a more forthright approach. Given what your Dad already said about wishing he had faith but finding it impossible, I should think HE'S already openned the door, so Greg's book or your own story (or better, both!) should be an appropriate first step. Nothing offensive there.
Tom | | Back to Top | | |
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Leila
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 93
| Posted 9/30/2004 1:04 PM (GMT -6) | | Hi Spen --- You said:
quote:
Your father desires faith, bring him the proof of the resurrection so that he may believe....He can have faith, not because of some blind leap or your love, but because God's love was proven in the resurrection.
My dad doesn't see the Bible as anymore of a God-inspired document than any other historical text. So quoting scripture to him would not prove a thing to him. He already knows the basic message of Christianity -- that Jesus died for our sins and all who believe will have everlasting life -- he just doesn't believe it. Just last night, my mom told me he was watching "Larry King" where they had a panel of different religious leaders (Muslim, Catholic, Jewish, Protestant, etc.) and the issue of hell brought up. When the Protestant guy said that Jesus was the only way to heaven, my dad responded, "He's stupid," and changed the channel.
Right now, I think I need to spend some time understanding my dad better, and talking with him about my own struggles and my own journey, as JET suggested. Perhaps references to certain chapters in Letters would be appropriate (the whole book might be a little overwhelming at the beginning). But until my dad's at a point where he can view the Bible as authoritative, I think to offer it up as a point of proof or means of persuasion would only turn him off.
Thanks for the feedback everyone. There's much to reflect upon -- and it's always nice to feel that others care enough to take the time to respond. And for the record, I do love my dad very much.  | | Back to Top | | |
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spenlake
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050
| Posted 9/30/2004 1:19 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Leila
Hi Spen --- You said:
quote:
Your father desires faith, bring him the proof of the resurrection so that he may believe....He can have faith, not because of some blind leap or your love, but because God's love was proven in the resurrection.
My dad doesn't see the Bible as anymore of a God-inspired document than any other historical text. So quoting scripture to him would not prove a thing to him. He already knows the basic message of Christianity -- that Jesus died for our sins and all who believe will have everlasting life -- he just doesn't believe it. Just last night, my mom told me he was watching "Larry King" where they had a panel of different religious leaders (Muslim, Catholic, Jewish, Protestant, etc.) and the issue of hell brought up. When the Protestant guy said that Jesus was the only way to heaven, my dad responded, "He's stupid," and changed the channel.
Right now, I think I need to spend some time understanding my dad better, and talking with him about my own struggles and my own journey, as JET suggested. Perhaps references to certain chapters in Letters would be appropriate (the whole book might be a little overwhelming at the beginning). But until my dad's at a point where he can view the Bible as authoritative, I think to offer it up as a point of proof or means of persuasion would only turn him off.
Thanks for the feedback everyone. There's much to reflect upon -- and it's always nice to feel that others care enough to take the time to respond. And for the record, I do love my dad very much.
God bless you Leila as you do your level best to do what is right and share the gospel. I am sorry if my comment regarding your loving your father sounded accusatory. It wasn't meant to impart guilt but as an encouragement to spur you on in sharing the gospel. I agree with Tom that God has given us freedom in HOW we share, just not in the "what" of the gospel itself. That never changes. Until one feels the need for it, the gospel is offensive and your father's reaction would be "normal."
I have never met you and I have no cause whatsoever to doubt that you have deep compassion and care about the eternal life of your father. Forgive me if I offended you in appearing to imply otherwise because I didn't intend to.
Spen Lake
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Leila
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 93
| Posted 10/1/2004 12:58 AM (GMT -6) | | Hi Spen Lake, Don't worry -- you didn't offend me. But thanks for your apology and your heartfelt words to me -- you are certainly forgiven.
Honestly, though, I do get frustrated when the church and other well-intended people suggest we should just quote Bible versus to non-Christians and expect them to accept it all at face value. That may work for children, or non-thinking people, but I don't see why anyone else would be swayed by it.
I think the key to witnessing to people is first developing a relationship with them and loving them and then understanding where they're coming from, what baggage they hold from their childhood, what negative experiences they have had with Christianity, etc. And then after addressing these issues in a loving manner, introducing them to the gospel. | | Back to Top | | |
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barryatk
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 101
| Posted 10/1/2004 6:05 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Leila
Hi Spen Lake, Don't worry -- you didn't offend me. But thanks for your apology and your heartfelt words to me -- you are certainly forgiven.
Honestly, though, I do get frustrated when the church and other well-intended people suggest we should just quote Bible versus to non-Christians and expect them to accept it all at face value. That may work for children, or non-thinking people, but I don't see why anyone else would be swayed by it.
I think the key to witnessing to people is first developing a relationship with them and loving them and then understanding where they're coming from, what baggage they hold from their childhood, what negative experiences they have had with Christianity, etc. And then after addressing these issues in a loving manner, introducing them to the gospel.
I know I once followed others urgings to say things to my dad...things they thought i "should say". I regret that now. You seem to be very gentle and patient about this and those are great things. I also love to hear of testimonies by others who have had great answers to prayer for unsaved loved ones. Jim Cymbala in "Fresh Wind, Fresh Fire" relates one regarding his wayward daughter... for whom he'd prayed and fasted for months, maybe years. His story was on Dobson's Focus on Family in about 2001...and was one of the most requested tapes. Also Dutch Sheets has a book about praying for the lost...also many great stories of victory. These kind of books are great for building the faith of we who believe.
I also love Philip Yancey's testimony and Lee Strobel...these guys talk about giving their lives to Christ BEFORE they understand many of the difficulties. I used to think one could not become a Christian and not agree with the doctrine of the virgin birth or the trinity. Now, I'm thinking these things need not be made requirements of those wanting to begin the walk with God. It does seem that the way most often we invite people to be saved is overly tortuous. I don't see the scriptures saying one must have all the doctrines down to become saved...just believe, confess, and ask Jesus into your life.
Blessings in your continued search,
Barry | | Back to Top | | |
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Leila
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 93
| Posted 10/2/2004 1:01 AM (GMT -6) | | | Thanks, Barry. I hope that one day we, too, will have inspiring testimonies to share. | | Back to Top | | |
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timlings
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2002
Total Posts : 130
| Posted 10/13/2004 5:23 AM (GMT -6) | | Hey Leila
Your Dad's in a great place!
I've recently been taught that often people become Christians on the believer's faith, not the unbeliever's.
What God is looking for is our willingness to do his will. Becoming a Christian is primarily where we surrender, uniting our will with God's will. If we are willing to do God's will, then God will show us more. If we respond well to what God's shown us so far, he will show us even more.
When people are in the position of saying 'I wish I had faith but I can't', they are saying they would like to follow and know Jesus, but from the place they're standing they can't even see God at all. But we have faith that God is real, so if we lead people to God and get people to pray, God will do the rest of the revealing.
So, with your Dad, what you need to do is pray with him! Ask him whether he is willing to do God's will, should he hypothetically exist etc. If he is, then lead him in a prayer, which basically says "God, I don't know if you're even there. But if you are, I'm willing to do your will. So please, if you're real, show yourself to me." God answers those sorts of prayers! Our job is just to connect people up to God. Hurrah!
Hope that helps.
Prayer is just so important in evangelism! If we just debate with people, we are just speaking to people's minds. But if we pray, we are inviting the Holy Spirit to come in too, and that's much more effective!
Love
Tim | | Back to Top | | |
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Truth Aficionado
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544
| Posted 10/14/2004 6:17 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Leila
And finally I got to the point where I said that most of this stuff is debatable and unknowable, but this we know: we know about God through Jesus.
At this point my dad shocked me by saying, “I’m jealous of people who have faith. I wish I could have faith, but I can’t.” And this pretty much ended our conversation.
Hello Leila,
I'm still praying for your father. Keep shining God's love his way and the Light will break through to his heart.
God Bless,
Mark
"Islam...means surrender, devotion, subjection to the divine order, and all this without much sacramental thought even in doctrine. The commands of the Koran can be fulfilled, the commandment of love, however, can never be fulfilled." Paul Tillich (1886 - 1965)
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barryatk
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 101
| Posted 10/14/2004 12:56 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by sparknheart
quote:
Originally posted by Leila
And finally I got to the point where I said that most of this stuff is debatable and unknowable, but this we know: we know about God through Jesus.
At this point my dad shocked me by saying, “I’m jealous of people who have faith. I wish I could have faith, but I can’t.” And this pretty much ended our conversation.
Hello Leila,
I'm still praying for your father. Keep shining God's love his way and the Light will break through to his heart.
God Bless,
Mark
"Islam...means surrender, devotion, subjection to the divine order, and all this without much sacramental thought even in doctrine. The commands of the Koran can be fulfilled, the commandment of love, however, can never be fulfilled." Paul Tillich (1886 - 1965)
Yes Leila. I'm praying too. What has been going on with your dad? I have a chance every Sunday to say a word. Often, I say a word about my dad...the minister, knowing not God as the bible expounds...yet preaching from what he knows. And asking for prayer. It truly is one of my grandest dreams to see my dad, at 73 and a minister, come to the saving knowledge of Jesus. I will hold this hope until and after the day he dies. Who knows what happens in the eternal realm?
Barry | | Back to Top | | |
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Leila
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 93
| Posted 10/15/2004 3:43 PM (GMT -6) | | Thanks Mark and Barry for your concern and your prayers.
I haven't had an opportunity to talk to my dad again, but will let you know when I do. Barry, please let us know how things are going with your father. I will pray for you and him as well. | | Back to Top | | |
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