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Similitude
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 4968
| Posted 11/18/2004 2:47 PM (GMT -6) |   | Tigress,
quote:
Why doesn't God just make Himself known to us in the first place? That way all anyone would have to do is learn that they must believe that Jesus is the only way to salvation without the whole problem of whether or not God exists since that's not what matters in us getting saved anyway.
Paul's answer, I think, per Romans 1, is that all humans knew the INVISIBLE things of God from creation. That knowledge obligates man to glorify God as God and give Him thanks. But humans don't do this, for which cause they are without excuse. Moreover, the particular adaptations of human nature to certain harmonious behaviors are also known by man. Yet, not only do they act contrary to such adaptations, knowing they are therefore worthy of death, but they actually take pleasure in others who do likewise. For this, too, they are without excuse. In other words, men know plenty enough already, but they subject/suppress that knowledge in unrighteousness.
wjs | | Back to Top | | |
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Jim Mottl
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Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 57
| Posted 11/18/2004 3:13 PM (GMT -6) | | I have thought of all kinds of stuff like this before. Like when Peter says that God desires all men to come to the faith, so they can be saved. Well...why doesn't He just save everyone then. There are 2 paths. One is narrow and one is wide. Few enter in the narrow, and many enter in the wide. That means that there will be more people going to Hell than Heaven. Not to be nit-picky but there is no such thing as "simply" believing. When the Rich Young Ruler asked Jesus what he must do to inherit eternal life, Jesus did not say, "Ask me into your heart and you will be saved" The Gospel is "hard" to believe, it's not "simply" believable. He asked him to sell all he had and follow Him. But I think you answered your own question when you said, Those people weren't saved by seeing and hearing Him but by their faith in the coming Redeemer, Jesus
Faith and trust in God is a requirement for salvation. | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 11/18/2004 4:35 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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Merton
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Date Joined Oct 2005
Total Posts : 17
| Posted 12/9/2005 12:11 PM (GMT -6) | | Wittgenstinian thought applied to the question would say that God is invisible because by God's nature God cannot be put on a list with other things. God is no thing. God is not an invisible thing, God is God. The manifestation of Jesus was a condesecion (as per Phil 2) that was deemed neccearry, you get the idea that Jewish leadership of the time (by no means all Jews) were not even responding to the revelation the nation of Israel had historicaly received.
God is not an invisble being. God cannot even be said to be a being as we use that word. That is another language game. If we were more concise in our usage of the language, perhaps it would be a smaller problem | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 12/11/2005 6:39 AM (GMT -6) | |
jefscott said...
Paul's answer, I think, per Romans 1, is that all humans knew the INVISIBLE things of God from creation. That knowledge obligates man to glorify God as God and give Him thanks. But humans don't do this,
Jefscott, imho, tagged the salient scripture. | | Back to Top | | |
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Starkman
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Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747
| Posted 12/12/2005 11:58 AM (GMT -6) | |
The vast majority of people who are not religious do not possess even the inkling ability to clearly see God, His attributes, and a deduction thereof that He created everything. I don't think that is what Paul is after in Romans 1, though it is the traditional interpretation. please see my post on this issue: http://www.opentheismboard.org/default.aspx?f=10&m=60393&g=60426#m60426
To whom was Paul speaking in Romans 1? The context is against the rebellious, the God-haters, those who clearly did know about God and out-right disobeyed what they knew about God. It is not the person who has really tried to be a good person and do unto others as he would be done unto. It's just not so simple as lumping the whole world into the same pot as those men doing things with men that they shouldn't, knowing it's wrong, knowing they're going against God but enticing others along the way.
As to God being invisible...
He showed up one time, and they killed Him in the form in which He came. Further, suppose God did show up again? I mean, is mankind going to fall down and worship Him any more than they do now, any better than they do now, any more faithfully than they do now? Hardly. Oh, there'll be the motion and body action, but the heart will still be far away.
It isn't just "seeing" God that people need. If that were the case, God would show up. It's the heart, not the eyes. People think they'd believe, but that's really all they might do: believe. Well, Satan believes, and so what. Faith, however, does not allow for the heart to stay out of it. You can't faithe in Christ if your heart isn't in it. And that's what God wants.
Starkman
My teacher used to say that whenever he read Scripture, he would always ask the question, "What does this have to say about the character of God?" Working off his thinking, as I read Scripture, I have come to ask, "What does this have to say about the heart and passion of God's desire for relationship for us? | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 12/12/2005 11:32 PM (GMT -6) | | No, I think JS's snip from scripture still holds the table:
"That knowledge obligates man to glorify God as God and give Him thanks. But humans don't do this..."
Knowledge that the world is there and that they did not make it OBLIGATES their giving thanks. Basic. And they DO GET IT. Though some sometimes refuse. But they "get it."
Knowedge that the world is supporting their life is cause for their glorification of something other than themselves.
The world is "eucharistic" in that its creational purpose is to be offered in praise and gratetude back to God in thanksgiving and worship.
All know it, and all know their obligation. But some seek to try to escape. | | Back to Top | | |
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