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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 9/10/2003 1:38 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The thought to include this quote on this board grows out of the contrasting proposals, opposite, that God CAN and CAN'T empower humans for holy living.

The quote is by a 1850s (pre-Am-Cival War) preacher for South Africa, Andrew Murray.

quote:
This hearing the voice of God is something more than the thoughtful study of the Word. There may be a study and knowledge of the Word, in which there is but little real fellowship with the living God. But there is also a reading of the Word, in the very presence of the Father, and under the leading of the Spirit, in which the Word comes to us in living power from God Himself; it is to us the very voice of the Father, a real personal fellowship with Himself. It is the living voice of God that enters the heart, that brings blessing and strength, and awakens the response of a living faith that reaches the heart of God again.

It is on this hearing the voice, that the power both to obey and believe depends. The chief thing is, not to know what God has said we must do, but that God Himself says it to us. It is not the law, and not the book, not the knowledge of what is right, that works obedience, but the personal influence of God and His living fellowship. And even so it is not the knowledge of what God has promised, but the presence of God Himself as the Promiser, that awakens faith and trust in prayer. It is only in the full presence of God that disobedience and unbelief become impossible.


WITH CHRIST In the School of Prayer: Thoughts on Our Training
for the Ministry of Intercession
BY REV. ANDREW MURRAY
Lord, teach us to pray.

NEW YORK CHICAGO TORONTO
Fleming H. Revell Company
Publishers of Evangelical Literature.



It is faith in THIS, and the active experience of it that leads several on this board to believe that every moment it is possible for one to live holy. In focusing, in that way, on the Person of the Father...through the Son...in the Spirit, that life becomes a matter of individual moments. Not a theoretical "whole life" to about which supposed "inevitable" failures are to be statistically considered.

Murry can be considered a Godly prophet in this regard.

Let me point you to several FREE books online by Murray.

  • http://www.ccel.org/m/murray/
    List of books...........


  • http://www.ccel.org/ccel/murray/prayer.html
    Several formats for: With Christ in the School of Prayer


  • http://www.ccel.org/ccel/murray/deeper.html
    Several formats for: The Deeper Christian Life


Blessings.

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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 9/11/2003 11:21 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
(23 readers so far...)

Anyone else know/like Murray's writing?
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rsirkel
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   Posted 9/16/2003 4:26 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
POW
Still no takers! Since I thought it was a wonderful post and deserves a reply. I like Murray's writings. Do you want to talk about his writings or a contemporary obedience to the voice of God?
Have I discussed anything with you before?
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Tigress
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   Posted 9/19/2003 8:28 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm sorry, I've never read anything by this guy. If I had, I'd gladly discuss it with you.Blush


Tigress Tigress

"Name a shrub after me. Preferably one that's prickly and difficult to eradicate."

-Captain Jack Aubrey
"Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World"

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Blood Washed Heretic
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   Posted 9/19/2003 10:17 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I've only read WITH CHRIST...

I liked it.

Can I be your friend?


In essentials, unity; In matters of opinion, liberty; In all things, love.

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DLW
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Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457
 
   Posted 9/19/2003 10:22 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
How about more biography on this dude, to give us some context for what he is saying?

dlw
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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
 
   Posted 9/19/2003 11:42 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
quote:
Originally posted by PotOnWheel

Andrew Murray.
Several formats for: With Christ in the School of Prayer
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/murray/prayer.html


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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
 
   Posted 9/19/2003 11:54 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
quote:
Originally posted by PotOnWheel

The thought to include this quote on this board grows out of the contrasting proposals, opposite, that God CAN and CAN'T empower humans for holy living.

The quote is by a 1850s (pre-Am-Cival War) preacher for South Africa, Andrew Murray.

quote:
This hearing the voice of God is something more than the thoughtful study of the Word. There may be a study and knowledge of the Word, in which there is but little real fellowship with the living God. But there is also a reading of the Word, in the very presence of the Father, and under the leading of the Spirit, in which the Word comes to us in living power from God Himself; it is to us the very voice of the Father, a real personal fellowship with Himself. It is the living voice of God that enters the heart, that brings blessing and strength, and awakens the response of a living faith that reaches the heart of God again.

It is on this hearing the voice, that the power both to obey and believe depends. The chief thing is, not to know what God has said we must do, but that God Himself says it to us. It is not the law, and not the book, not the knowledge of what is right, that works obedience, but the personal influence of God and His living fellowship. And even so it is not the knowledge of what God has promised, but the presence of God Himself as the Promiser, that awakens faith and trust in prayer. It is only in the full presence of God that disobedience and unbelief become impossible.


WITH CHRIST In the School of Prayer: Thoughts on Our Training for the Ministry of Intercession. BY REV. ANDREW MURRAY



That portion reminds me of this, written by a seminary Dean, Thomas Hopko:

quote:
If communion with God is not possible, then there is no Christian Faith and certainly no Orthodoxy.

The entire faith of the Church is built on the fact that "God is the Lord and has revealed Himself unto us." This biblical line is solemnly sung at every Morning Service in the Orthodox Church.

God has revealed Himself! He has not merely told some things about Himself, or communicated some data about His divine existence and purposes. He has shown forth Himself and has given Himself to men for divine communion.

According to Orthodoxy, there is no other meaning to the life of man except in communion with God. God is the end of all longing, the fulfillment of all desires, the source and the goal of man's very humanity made in God's divine image and likeness.

Through Jesus Christ in the Holy Spirit, man comes to living communion with God the Father Himself. There is no other meaning and purpose to the Church and to life itself.

Man and all creation with him must come to be divine by sharing the being and life and action of God Himself. All of the attributes of divinity -- as one saint put it -- must become ours; eternal life, truth, goodness, holiness, purity, joy ... all perfections summed up in the greatest which is Love. For God is Love! This is the meaning of life, and it is certainly possible for men to attain it. At least, once more, according to the Orthodox Faith.

www.oca.org/pages/orth_chri/Q-and-A_OLD/Meeting-the-Orthodox.html



Such similarity speaks of what St. Iraneaus spoke of, how the variations across geography only serve to highlight that there is "One Faith, one Lord, one Baptism" in the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostalic Faith.

  • If communion with God is not possible, then there is no Christian Faith

  • God has revealed Himself! He has not merely told some things about Himself, or communicated some data about His divine existence and purposes. He has shown forth Himself and has given Himself to men for divine communion.

  • God is the end of all longing, the fulfillment of all desires, the source and the goal of man's very humanity made in God's divine image and likeness.

  • Man and all creation with him must come to be divine by sharing the being and life and action of God Himself.


  • and

  • All of the attributes of divinity -- as one saint put it -- must become ours; eternal life, truth, goodness, holiness, purity, joy ... all perfections summed up in the greatest which is Love. For God is Love! This is the meaning of life, and it is certainly possible for men to attain it.


THAT SEEMS VERY SIMILAR TO MURRAY. (Which is why I don't give a hill of beans--or even one--to try and disect him for some academic definition of his "context.")

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DLW
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   Posted 9/19/2003 12:02 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Context does matter. We don't write stuff in a vacuum and historically for Christianity, the relation of Church and State has been an important topic, even when some tried to make it out not to be by emphasizing their method of authority within the Church as a means to eradicate "the political" since their ecclesiastical answers to the problems of orders they faced were portrayed as from God and not subject to being questioned/reconsidered often with tragic results.

dlw


Niebuhr thought that sustained moral energy in politics depended on religion's power to mobilize reason along with self-transcending love. The prophetic tradition, meanwhile, gave Jews and Christians some protection against the temptation to identify their social causes with God's will. Lincoln's second inaugural address expressed the prophetic insight, "The almighty has His own purposes."

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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 9/19/2003 4:27 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
dlw is having his own conversation.
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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 9/19/2003 4:36 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Here is Murry's entry in The Lord's Table, which is placed as the Sunday BEFORE Communion Sunday. (I'll post the verses accompanying each day along the way at the bottom, after it.)

quote:
SABBATH MORNING
The Divine Invitation

“Behold, I have made ready my dinner. All things are ready. Come to the marriage.” —Matthew 22:4.

Let the King of Heaven and Earth say this to you. In honor of His Son He has prepared a great supper. There the Son bears His human nature. There are all the children of men, dear and precious to the Father, and He has caused them to be invited to the great festival of the Divine love. He is prepared to receive and honor them there as guests and friends. He will feed them with His heavenly food. He will bestow upon them the gifts and energies of everlasting life.

O my soul, thou also hast received this heavenly invitation. To be asked to eat with the King of Glory: how it behooves thee to embrace and be occupied with this honor. How desirous must you be to prepare yourself for this feast. How you must long that you should be in dress and demeanor, and language and disposition, all that may be rightly expected of one who is invited to the court of the King of kings.

Glorious invitation! I think of the banquet itself and what it has cost the great God to prepare it. To find food for angels: for this only one word was necessary. But to prepare for man upon this accursed earth a banquet of heavenly food—that cost Him much. Nothing less than the life and blood of His Son, to take away the curse and to open up to them the right and the access to heavenly blessings. Nothing less than the body and the blood of the Son of God could give life to lost men. O my soul, ponder the wonders of this royal banquet.

I think of the invitation. It is as free, as wide as it could be, “without money and without price.” The poorest and the most unworthy are called to it. And so urgent and cordial is it. Not less cordial is the love which invites to it, the love which longs after sinners and takes delight in entertaining and blessing them.

I think of the blessing of the banquet. The dying are fed with the power of a heavenly life, the lost are restored to their places in the Father’s house, those that thirst after God are satisfied with God Himself and with His love.

Glorious invitation! With adoration I receive it, and prepare myself to make use of it. I have read of those who hold themselves excused because they are hindered, —one by his merchandise, another by his work, and a third by his domestic happiness. I have heard the voice which has said, “I say unto you, that none of these men which were bidden shall taste of My supper.” Under the conviction that He who so cordially invites me is the Holy One, who will not suffer Himself to be mocked, I will prepare myself to lay aside all thoughtlessness, to withdraw myself from the seductions of the world; and with all earnestness to yield obedience to the voice of the heavenly love. I will remain in quiet meditation and in fellowship with the children of God, to keep myself free from all needless anxiety about the world, and as an invited guest, to meet my God with real hunger and quiet joy. He Himself will not withhold from me His help in this work.


PRAYER.

Eternal God, I have received the good tidings that there is room also for me at the table of Thy Son. With grateful thanks I receive thy invitation, God of all grace. I hunger for Thy bread, O Lord. My soul thirsts for God. For the living God my flesh and my heart cry out. When shall I enter and appear before the face of God?

Lord, graciously bestow upon me this week a real blessing in the way of preparation. Let the sight of my sinfulness humble me deeply and take away from me all hope in myself. Let the sight of Thy grace again encourage me and fill me with confidence and gladness. Do Thou Thyself stir up within me a mighty desire for the Bridegroom, for the precious Jesus, without whom there could be no feast. And may it be manifest in me this week that I am full of the thought that I have an invitation to eat bread in the house of my God with his only-begotten and well-beloved Son. Lord, grant this for Jesus’ sake.

Lord Jesus, thou hast taught me: “God is a spirit, and they that worship Him must worship Him in spirit and in truth.” Lord, spiritual worship we cannot bring: but Thou wilt bestow upon us Thy Spirit. I entreat thee, Lord, to grant the working of the Spirit. The blessing of the Supper is a high spiritual blessing. The invisible God will there come very near to us and will very mightily impart the gift of eternal life to those who have the spiritual capacity for it. Only the spiritual mind can enjoy the spiritual blessing. Thou knowest how deeply I fail in this receptiveness for a full blessing. But grant, I pray thee, that the Holy Spirit may this week dwell and work in me with special power. I will surrender myself for this end to Him and to His guidance, in order that He may overcome in me the spirit of the world and renew my inner life to inherit from my God a new blessing,. Lord, let Thy Spirit work mightily within me.

And as I thus pray for myself I pray also for the whole congregation. Grant, Lord, in behalf of all thy children an overflowing outpouring of Thy Spirit, in order that this Supper may really be for all of us a time of quickening and renewal of our energies.

Amen.



  • “Behold, I have made ready my dinner. All things are ready. Come to the marriage.” —Matthew 22:4.

  • “Where wilt Thou that we go and make ready, that thou mayest eat the passover?” “He will himself show you a large upper room furnished and ready, and there make ready for us.” “If thou set thine heart aright, then stretch out thine hands toward Him.” —Mark 4:12, 15; Job 11:13.

  • “And He said unto them, With desire have I desired to eat this passover with you.” “Behold, I stand at the door and knock: if any man bear My voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with Me.” —Luke 22:15; Revelation 3:20.

  • “But let a man prove himself, and so let him eat of the bread and drink of the cup.” “Try your own selves, whether ye be in the faith: prove your own selves. Or know ye not as to your own selves, that Jesus Christ is in you? unless indeed, ye be reprobate.” —1 Corinthians 11:28; 2 Corinthians 13:5.

  • “I will declare mine iniquity; I will be sorry for my sin.” “How many are mine iniquities and sins: make me to know my transgression and my sin.” “ Blessed are they that mourn, for they shall be comforted.” —Psalm 38:18 Job 8:23; Matthew 5:4.

  • Thy sins are forgiven. Thy faith hath saved thee: go in peace.” —LUKE 7:48-50.

  • “The love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge that one died for all, therefore all died: and He died for all, that they which live shall no longer live unto themselves, but unto Him who for their sake died, and rose again.” —2 Cor. 5:14-15.



quote:
The Communion Sabbath

Here, O my Lord, I see Thee face to face;
Here would I touch and handle things unseen;
Here grasp with firmer hand and eternal grace
And all my weariness upon Thee lean.

Here would I feed upon the bread of God,
Here drink with Thee the royal wine of Heaven;
Here would I lay aside each earthly load,
Here taste afresh the calm of sin forgiven.

This is the hour of banquet and of song;
This is the Heavenly table spread for me;
Here let me feast, and feasting still prolong
The brief, bright hour of fellowship with Thee.

—Horatius Bonar

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PotOnWheel
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Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
 
   Posted 9/19/2003 4:44 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
quote:
Originally posted by Blood Washed Heretic

I've only read WITH CHRIST...

I liked it.


1. What do you remember?

2. What stayed with you, and what did this do for your "walk with the Lord?"
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PotOnWheel
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Total Posts : 9890
 
   Posted 9/20/2003 6:27 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I hymn was sung at our church last Sunday, called "the Romans doxology." It is drawn from this passage:

quote:
Romans 11:33-36

O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and the knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past tracing out! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? For of him, and through him, and unto him, are all things. To him [be] the glory for ever. Amen.



The chorus goes this way:

    for from Him and through Him and to Him are all things
    to Him be the glory forevermore,
    to Him be the glory forever Amen. Amen. Amen


    CCLI#296301


It is not just knowledge about God that we seek, but knowledge of God: of Him from whom all things are made, and in whoom they continue to have their being, and unto whom they all have their end -- and hence in whom they have their very meaning.
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PotOnWheel
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   Posted 11/18/2006 4:09 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Good thread.


(o)

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