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JEE
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   Posted 4/4/2005 3:58 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I've read several Leonard Sweet books (not that helpful, though rather interesting, to say the least).
 
Anyone know of a good primer on "The Emerging Church" movement? I know postmodernism is a big part of the worldview involved in it, and that they are very interested in revisioning "church," and that "narrative theology" and existentialism are a big parts of it (which is cool, really) but that's about all I've been able to get about it thus far. Any help would be greatly appreciated.


May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.


JohnE


http://revivaltheology.net

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BBBCanada
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   Posted 4/4/2005 4:15 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Yeah.  Robert Webber's, "The Younger Evangelicals."  Also, Brian McLaren's, "A Generous Orthodoxy."  Though the second book is probably not so much a book about "The Emerging Church," as much as it is an insider's look as an "emergent."  But the first is definitely the book for what you are looking for. 


Brandon
"Theology is doxology"--John G. Stackhouse quoting J.I. Packer in "Evangelical Futures: A Conversation on Theological Method"

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Corey
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   Posted 4/4/2005 5:12 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
A Primer on Postmodernism
by Stanley J. Grenz
One of the best books to read to understand postmodernism and it's imact upon the church. Grenz is highly readable and immensely insightful in making plain the complexities and realities of our day.
I read this one and liked it, but it's not directly about the emerging church per se, as it is about the philosophy behind it.
 
I've got this one on my shelf, but haven't read it yet:
by Dan Kimball, Rick Warren, Brian D. McLaren

Churches are noticing less and less emerging generations in their midst. This book explores the cultural changes impacting churches and offers practical advice of how they can creatively reach emerging generations. Some of the "spiritual" things that were removed from churches are the very things that post-Christian generations are connecting with and find attractive in a church.
View on AmazonClick to View on Amazon

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BBBCanada
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   Posted 4/5/2005 3:03 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Actually Corey, Grenz's book on Postmodernism is specifically about that. Not about The Emerging Church. However, Grenz was hooked up in a big way to The Emerging Church so anything by him is a good read. However, "Beyond Foundationalism" is probably one of the better ones. Though it is somewhat heady.


Brandon
"Theology is doxology"--John G. Stackhouse quoting J.I. Packer in "Evangelical Futures: A Conversation on Theological Method"

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Corey
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   Posted 4/5/2005 8:22 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
BBBCanada said...
Actually Corey, Grenz's book on Postmodernism is specifically about that. Not about The Emerging Church. However, Grenz was hooked up in a big way to The Emerging Church so anything by him is a good read. However, "Beyond Foundationalism" is probably one of the better ones. Though it is somewhat heady.
Right.  I've got that book too, and have been trying to get my family to read it, with little success.
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Viator
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   Posted 4/5/2005 11:53 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
"Church Planting Movements: How God is Redeeming a Lost World", by David Garrison, Director S.E. Asia for Southern Baptist Convention, is a text that is getting excellent reviews from people like Rick Warren and others that are looking closely at the emerging church. Reviewers of David's book have called it "the book for church pllanting in the 21st century." I don't know if it is all that...but David and I attended seminary together and ministered together through the 19th Avenue Baptist Church in San Francisco from 1979-1982. He received his PhD from the University of Chicago under Martin Marty. He is a great guy with credentials that have come from doing...rather than reading about.
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Reader
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   Posted 4/5/2005 12:35 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Corey rightly alerted me that my post was too long.  Unfortunately, there is no link to the article that I can paste in here.  Perhaps there will be a link in the next few weeks.  If anyone is interested just send me a private message and I will send it out.

Sorry Corey.

 

Here is a recent article on the emerging church that outlines possible concerns for the gospel.  The book, A Generous Orthodoxy, may interest you.

A Critique of Brian McLaren, A Generous Orthodoxy

By Bob DeWaay

Post Edited (Reader) : 4/5/2005 1:58:31 PM (GMT-5)

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Viator
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   Posted 4/5/2005 1:20 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
No time to read your post at the moment. I looked at that list of "most influential" and was sorely disappointed. If this is the tribe that is going to lead us in the eearly 21st century...God help us.
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Reader
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   Posted 4/16/2005 6:54 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Here is the link to the article on the emerging church.

http://www.twincityfellowship.com/cic/articles/issue87.htm
 
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D.R.
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   Posted 5/10/2005 11:54 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I would suggest reading D.A. Carson's new book for an alternate perspective. I have heard from several conservative Emergent Church folks who say it is evenhanded and at times very right on point.

D.R.
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¡Que Payaso!
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   Posted 5/11/2005 12:51 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.

Carson's book is:

Becoming Conversant with the Emerging Church (Zondervan, 2005).

You can read an excerpt at the Zondervan website: http://www.zondervan.com/media/pdfs/0310259479.pdf


El Payaso
 
"I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve." - Bilbo Baggins

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JEE
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   Posted 5/11/2005 10:47 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Thanks for all the input. I personally see some real problems (as well as some positive things) with "The Emerging Church" movement. I want to have a balanced understanding of it. From what I've seen so far, I doubt I'll ever become part of it (I'm far too mathematically/logically oriented to ever embrace postmodernism), if anyone might've been worried.  biggrin


May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.


JohnE


http://www.revivaltheology.cjb.net

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Laika
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   Posted 5/11/2005 10:53 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
JEE said...
(I'm far too mathematically/logically oriented to ever embrace postmodernism)
You don't think God knows 2 + 2 = 5 ??? 
 
You're limiting God to a box.
 
A BOX ON THE FREEWAY!
 
AND ALL HE HAS IS A FIVE YEAR OLD COPY OF FIELD AND STREAM IN THAT BOX!!!!!!!!!
 
hmmm 
 
At least He's got a box.
 
I only had one of those flaps on a box.......
 



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JEE
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   Posted 5/11/2005 10:55 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Laika: Yup.


May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.


JohnE


http://www.revivaltheology.cjb.net

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BBBCanada
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   Posted 5/22/2005 12:57 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Been reading my copy of Carson's book mentioned here.  There is a lot in there that leaders in the emerging church would agree with.  Carson says that SOME of the leaders falsely dichotomize between affective and propositional ways of knowing truth.  Of course, he is careful NOT to say that ALL of them do this.  And of course, SOME DO do this.  But if, as he says, in EVERY movement there are strenghts and weaknesses and that the emerging church was bringing helpful correctives to the church (i.e. as is the health and wealth gospel), then the emerging church was/is something NEEDED for a time in which the affective part was lacking.  So far, though, I agree with his assessment of some of the weaknesses of the movement.  Postmodernism (a "bastard child" of modernism as Carson calls it) has crept into the church in some unfortunate ways i.e. absolutely no one should make absolutist claims. biggrin  Even Grenz recognizes the Christian metanarrative that has authority over our lives and bemoans the fact that this is an aspect of postmodernism that is unhealthy and dangerous.  Does this mean he is being negatively absolutist?  I think it was in one of the blogs that I read in memorial to Grenz in which he told someone to continue to, "Read your Bible" as an example that he still held to authority.  It may be that the problem with much epistomology and apologetics (as these are the most OBVIOUS instances reflected in the emerging church), that the issue is not one of certainty, but of humility.  In other words, it is our ATTITUDES in DOING these things which makes all the difference.
 
So far, I highly recommend it as contributing a need corrective to this branch of evangelicalism.
 
 


Brandon
"On Plantinga's conception of rationality, a rational belief system will display the characteristic foundationalist structure: there is still a foundation that is noninferentially justified and the relation of rational supports proceeds upward through the higher levels.  Where his foundationalism departs from classical foundationalism is in his specifcation of properly basic beliefs.  The classical foundationalist has a rather sparse set of properly basic beliefs.  Plantinga's foundationalism is much less parsimonious in its specification of properly basic beliefs.  He also includes memory beliefs, beliefs about the external world, acceptance of testimony, and belief in God, among others."--Return To Reason, Kelly James Clark

Post Edited (BBBCanada) : 5/22/2005 1:13:32 PM (GMT-5)

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BBBCanada
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   Posted 5/22/2005 3:58 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I was thinking, while John may never become an emergent because he is too logically oriented, I may not be one (though I confess I associate in these circles) because I am too absolutist. I have problems with fideism, but fideism comes in different forms. I would not be TOTALLY fideistic either. I would follow more "responsible" forms in which reason is limited (I wouldn't adhere to Van Tillianism) but reason can be used to be self-critical to make such assumptions of it's own limitations.


Brandon
"On Plantinga's conception of rationality, a rational belief system will display the characteristic foundationalist structure: there is still a foundation that is noninferentially justified and the relation of rational supports proceeds upward through the higher levels.  Where his foundationalism departs from classical foundationalism is in his specifcation of properly basic beliefs.  The classical foundationalist has a rather sparse set of properly basic beliefs.  Plantinga's foundationalism is much less parsimonious in its specification of properly basic beliefs.  He also includes memory beliefs, beliefs about the external world, acceptance of testimony, and belief in God, among others."--Return To Reason, Kelly James Clark

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BBBCanada
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   Posted 5/24/2005 12:30 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
OK.  I was going to talk about some of my criticisms of Carson's book.  But for now, I think I will let this guy speak for me:
 
 
Needless to say, Carson is not fair in his analysis about Emergent and truth claims.  Plus, check out the links.


Brandon
"On Plantinga's conception of rationality, a rational belief system will display the characteristic foundationalist structure: there is still a foundation that is noninferentially justified and the relation of rational supports proceeds upward through the higher levels.  Where his foundationalism departs from classical foundationalism is in his specifcation of properly basic beliefs.  The classical foundationalist has a rather sparse set of properly basic beliefs.  Plantinga's foundationalism is much less parsimonious in its specification of properly basic beliefs.  He also includes memory beliefs, beliefs about the external world, acceptance of testimony, and belief in God, among others."--Return To Reason, Kelly James Clark

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BBBCanada
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   Posted 5/24/2005 12:32 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Oh, by the way. Am I going to have to rant on aimlessly about Carson's book by myself?


Brandon
"On Plantinga's conception of rationality, a rational belief system will display the characteristic foundationalist structure: there is still a foundation that is noninferentially justified and the relation of rational supports proceeds upward through the higher levels.  Where his foundationalism departs from classical foundationalism is in his specifcation of properly basic beliefs.  The classical foundationalist has a rather sparse set of properly basic beliefs.  Plantinga's foundationalism is much less parsimonious in its specification of properly basic beliefs.  He also includes memory beliefs, beliefs about the external world, acceptance of testimony, and belief in God, among others."--Return To Reason, Kelly James Clark

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spenlake
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   Posted 1/3/2006 3:24 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
For those who are in the Minneapolis area and are interested in the Emerging Church, Dough Pagitt of Solomon's Porch will be debating Bob Dewaay at 7:00 PM on Friday January 20.  The debate is being hosted by Twin City Fellowship at 24th Ave Soutn and Nicollet Avenue in Minneapolis, close to the Art Institute.
 
The title of the debate is:
 

The Emergent Church and Postmodern Spirituality

Dangerous Trends or Necessary Changes for Evangelicalism?

 

You are invited to come and hear Doug Pagitt from Solomon’s Porch and Bob DeWaay from Twin City Fellowship, both from Minneapolis discuss the above topics.

 

Doug Pagitt a nationally known leader of the Emergent Church movement.

 

Bob DeWaay has published an article critical of this movement.

 

When:              January 20, 2006 – 7:00pm

 

Where:             Twin City Fellowship; 2315 Nicollet Ave. S. Minneapolis

 

The event is free and there is no registration.

 

For more information: 612-874-7484


Spen Lake

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