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selah
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1210
|  Posted 10/16/2005 7:23 AM (GMT -6) |   | Mephi, I'm SO confused with your theology (or what I understand it to be) please help me by answering this simple simple inquiry.
In terms of universal salvation (if you still believe in that) and the new & improved Christian Hedonism thing (God serves us -- we aren't
required to serve him back). How do you understand the following parables? I just can't get it...especially the underlined parts...
Mat. 25:14 "For it is as if a man, going on a journey, summoned his slaves and entrusted his property to them; 15 to one he gave five talents, to another two, to another one, to each according to his ability. Then he went away. 16 The one who had received the five talents went off at once and traded with them, and made five more talents. 17 In the same way, the one who had the two talents made two more talents. 18 But the one who had received the one talent went off and dug a hole in the ground and hid his master's money. 19 After a long time the master of those slaves came and settled accounts with them. 20 Then the one who had received the five talents came forward, bringing five more talents, saying, "Master, you handed over to me five talents; see, I have made five more talents.' 21 His master said to him, "Well done, good and trustworthy slave; you have been trustworthy in a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.' 22 And the one with the two talents also came forward, saying, "Master, you handed over to me two talents; see, I have made two more talents.' 23 His master said to him, "Well done, good and trustworthy slave; you have been trustworthy in a few things, I will put you in charge of many things; enter into the joy of your master.' 24 Then the one who had received the one talent also came forward, saying, "Master, I knew that you were a harsh man, reaping where you did not sow, and gathering where you did not scatter seed; 25 so I was afraid, and I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here you have what is yours.' 26 But his master replied, "You wicked and lazy slave! You knew, did you, that I reap where I did not sow, and gather where I did not scatter? 27 Then you ought to have invested my money with the bankers, and on my return I would have received what was my own with interest. 28 So take the talent from him, and give it to the one with the ten talents. 29 For to all those who have, more will be given, and they will have an abundance; but from those who have nothing, even what they have will be taken away. 30 As for this worthless slave, throw him into the outer darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'
31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on the throne of his glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, 33 and he will put the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left. 34 Then the king will say to those at his right hand, "Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; 35 for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.' 37 Then the righteous will answer him, "Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? 38 And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? 39 And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?' 40 And the king will answer them, "Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family, you did it to me.' 41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, "You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; 42 for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.' (WELL, WE WERE BUSY BEING HEDONISTS -- WE THOUGHT WE WEREN'T REQUIRED TO ACTUALLY SERVE YOU BACK...AFTER ALL, THE WAY I READ THE BIBLE, YOU DON'T NEED US! REMEMBER, YOU AREN'T SERVED BY HUMAN HANDS... 44 Then they also will answer, "Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?' 45 Then he will answer them, "Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.' 46 And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."
Thanx,
T
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"To the Christian, love is the works of love. To say that love is a feeling or anything of the kind is an unchristian conception of love. That is the aesthetic definition and therefore fits the erotic and everything of that nature. But to the Christian love is the works of love. Christ's love was not an inner feeling, a full heart and what not, it was the work of love which was his life."
~ Soren Kierkegaard
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selah
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1210
| Posted 10/16/2005 7:28 AM (GMT -6) | | "To the Christian, love is the works of love. To say that love is a feeling or anything of the kind is an unchristian conception of love. That is the aesthetic definition and therefore fits the erotic and everything of that nature. But to the Christian love is the works of love. Christ's love was not an inner feeling, a full heart and what not, it was the work of love which was his life."
SK knew everything.  | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 10/16/2005 9:48 AM (GMT -6) | | See. That's yer problem. You believe everything the Bible tells you. You Mormon, you. Do you believe God had actual "back parts" that Moses saw too? 
I'm KIDDING!! lol!
Now...
1) As far as SK. Works of love are only the OCCASION by which the "hiddenness" of love are revealed, right? Remember, love (God?) wants to reveal itself, but can ONLY be known through it's fruits...which are the works of love.
Being as the Incarnate Christ (whom SK was undoubtedly talking about) lived his life as a living, ongoing manifestion of "love" in the word, his very LIFE could be considered a "work of love"
Makes sense to me. And it doesn't change anything I've said. We don't "work" to serve God. We are to open ourselves up to be an OCCASION for God to reveal Godself via our activities.
2) As far as the Matthew passage. We won't even get into any Gospel issues. We'll just take it as it stands, ok?
a) You should well remember that my conception of universalism did have a "hell" (a pretty torturous one at that), so that's no issue.
b) You oughta know Jesus' position on this. He said it over and over. It's not the works THEMSELVES that demonstrate one's participation in God's Reign. They, if true, are merely the accompanying sign that flows out of the person's heart. Don't you remember Matthew 7 where Jesus basically tells off people who LIST the "works" that they'd supposedly done for him? Doesn't this kind of hint that it's NOT just works that matter?
If a person is truly filled with God's heart, it won't represent itself in merely abstract , "aesthetic" (using this in the SK sense) musing, but in direct singleminded action that flows from one's heart. It is THIS kind of "works of love" that God can use as an occasion...and commend us for.
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Does this help?
PS: How about you respond to my other post? Do you agree or disagree with what I'm saying there? | | Back to Top | | |
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One Love
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888
| Posted 10/16/2005 9:53 AM (GMT -6) | | Selah:
SK knew everything.
Journal note from 1854, Soren Kierkegaard
"But I do not pretend to be better than others. What the old bishop said about me--that I talked as if everybody else was on the road to hell--is simply not true. No, if anyone wants to be able to say that I talk about going to hell, then I talk like this--'If the rest are all going to hell, then I am going along.' This is the way I speak if anyone is able to say in any sense that I talk about going to hell. But I do not believe it. On the contrary, I believe that we will all be saved--and I, too--something which arouses my deepest wonder."
You said it, sister! ;o)
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Merton
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Date Joined Oct 2005
Total Posts : 17
| Posted 10/24/2005 3:22 PM (GMT -6) | | | Just a suggestion. If Kierkegaardianism is the topic here: 1. continue to understand that SK was a writer of his day writing to the period of his day. 2. See Karl Barth as a more consitent version of his mentor SK. 3. Is the universalims here similar to the apokatastisis of Gregory of Nyssa? Is it about the metaphysical dualism which is seemingly posited by an eternal hell existing outside of God? | | Back to Top | | |
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selah
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1210
| Posted 10/24/2005 5:56 PM (GMT -6) | | Kierkegaard's writings are timeless...(imo)
why listen to the student when you can hear the prof?
guess I don't get your point merton...
sorry.
selah | | Back to Top | | |
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Merton
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Date Joined Oct 2005
Total Posts : 17
| Posted 10/24/2005 7:09 PM (GMT -6) | | All thought is timeless. But all thought must first be understood as what it most likely meant when it was written. Then and only then can we understand what that work means now (kinda like hermenutics for scripture, huh, look at that). I love SK, but it was couched in a specific debate that SK fought with Christendom his whole life. That is the point. A word of warning, all prophets have something to say to all generations, but first to their generation first. Simply a word of warning.
SK was his thought teacher. Barth was a more consitent version of SK. That is all. When one is at battle with another, as SK was with Danish Christendom, often leaves stones unturned because they didn't at that time need to address them. For a fuller learning. And we often understand a teacher better from one who has spent more time learning from the promogentor of the thought pattern. That is all.
Just suggestion. | | Back to Top | | |
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