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Andrew_
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 9

Posted 10/27/2003 5:57 AM (GMT -6)

But I still don't think you came up with a decent answer (and if you have, sorry: I missed it).

Is homosexuality a sin?

I read through the 'A Gay Man Defends Himself' thread, but I didn't see any conclusions drawn. Given that homosexuality can be (and, as is often the case, is) something beyond the individual's control, does that make it wrong? I also saw something about the difference between two Greek phrases (sorry, I don't recall which two, and I'm too lazy to look through the thread to find them), but I don't think that it was answered.

Again, I may have missed some things, and I apologize if I had.

P.S. - Hey Dana, when did you join the boards? I'm Andrew (SkinLikeWinter) from the hxcboards. How's college coming?

timlings
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2002
Total Posts : 130

Posted 10/27/2003 6:35 AM (GMT -6)

Hi there everybody

I'm gonna be quite honest now, but I think that's good, and will be releasing for people.

Firstly, I would just like to affirm that I am a bona-fide born-again, bible-believing follower of Jesus. Hurrah.

However, from an early age, I have been aware of homosexual feelings and desires. Basically, I was attracted to other guys and wouldn't be "turned on" by women. I had several girlfriends, but I think that was an attempt to prove to myself I was straight.

All this was a complete secret however. I was completely terrified that I was 'gay' and would get really depressed about it all (black clouds of dispair style). It was a stronghold over my life and I just didn't know what to do about it.

I went to university in 99 (school/college for all you american folk) and during my first year properly met Jesus and got set free from loads of stuff. But during that process I felt God telling me that I needed to come out into the open about my struggles. And I did, although it was very hard. Three years later I sort of properly 'came out', with the information being pretty common knowledge.

The amazing thing is that the more I am honest about how I feel, the more the feelings go away. God is doing and healing work in me and bringing sexual wholeness in my life. Which is amazing.

So, back to the original question.

I believe that homosexual behaviour is sin. It falls outside of God's perfect plan of marriage, and is therfore wrong and also very harmful and damaging (like all sin I suppose). However, having those desires isn't in itself sinful. After all, it isn't a sin to be tempted. However, it's what you do with the desires that is important.

I believe that God can change your desires too, as you grow in Chrislikeness. After all, growth in Christ means that you actually desire righteousness and hate wickedness. That can be applied to any area.

Just some thoughts. And I'm sure that's opened up a WHOLE can of worms!

love in Christ

timlings

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 10/27/2003 10:38 AM (GMT -6)

Just curious,

You say the feelings went away? So are you now attracted to females and no longer to other males?

I have read about very motivated individuals being able to change.

anyways,
praise God!

but stay disciplined and with people to hold you accountable.

dlw

Niebuhr thought that sustained moral energy in politics depended on religion's power to mobilize reason along with self-transcending love. The prophetic tradition, meanwhile, gave Jews and Christians some protection against the temptation to identify their social causes with God's will. Lincoln's second inaugural address expressed the prophetic insight, "The almighty has His own purposes."

philalethian
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 37

Posted 10/27/2003 3:05 PM (GMT -6)

I have a close friend whose dad is gay. He became a christian and believed that it was a sin and that God's perfect plan was marriage so he gave up his desires and he married and had kids to avoid temptation.

Because of "God's perfect plan" he has attempted suicide three times now. He is divorced and lonely and suicidal. All of his children go to councelling and one has attempted suicide multiple times. He has completely fucked up the life of his x-wife and his children. Now if that is a perfect plan then that is one messed up God.

I think God needs to learn to love people the way He/She/It created them.

Capitalism is organized Crime!!!

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 10/27/2003 3:34 PM (GMT -6)

Dana's example seems more the rule than the exception.

However, it does not follow that because people are gay and are resilient in their homosexuality that this is because God created/intended them to be that way.

I.e., we needn't commit the naturalistic fallacy.

dlw

timlings
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2002
Total Posts : 130

Posted 10/28/2003 6:52 AM (GMT -6)

Hey

All good stuff.

With the whole desire thing, what I've found most freeing has been not trying to make myself feel something/not feel something. When I was still trapped in myself, I would try and fancy girls and then get depressed when it didn't "work". But in bringing everything into the light, I was freed from that. In a way, I could say "this is how I feel, but now I am completely free not to act on it". Which was and is amazing.

The desire for girls instead is more of a recent and gradual thing, but is something God's placed in my heart. I haven't tried to force it.

I think that's where your mate's dad went awry philalethian...he tried to feel stuff and force a relationship. I've been there and it just doesn't work! But a Christians do have that attitude of trying to force things. It's not healthy and not good. After all, 'love must be sincere'.

love

timlings

Andrew_
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2003
Total Posts : 9

Posted 10/30/2003 5:55 AM (GMT -6)

I just found this (finally), but I read through the rest of the thread, and I don't think I saw it really explained (though it if it was, I don't think I understood it).

2. How certain are you that the New Testament teaches that all forms of homosexuality are wrong? How certain are you of the original meaning of Romans 1, of the phrase arsen koiti and the term malakoi?

I'm not an expert in Greek or any other foreign language (I only dabble in German, heh), so if someone would care to explain it...

And also, this may be faulty logic (and it probably is...I'm only 17), but I heard someone speak on the role that Galatians could play in this topic. What role (if any) can it play? Does it not state that we're no longer under the law? Did not Jesus become the law? Again, I'd expect it to be faulty logic, but I'd like someone to set me straight if I'm wrong.

Thanks for the replies, guys.

Andrew

timlings
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2002
Total Posts : 130

Posted 10/30/2003 8:54 AM (GMT -6)

Andrew

Just some thoughts really.

With regard to 'all forms' of homosexuality, what exactly are the different types? And how do you differentiate between them? Keep sex pure and godly within a marriage isn't always easy...it can be done for selfish reasons too, which is against God's plan. But outside of marriage, I think that sex can never be right.

I don't know the Greek, but I think it may be exegetical splitting hairs.

And about the whole law thing.

It's true that we're no longer under the Law. But that doesn' mean we're not under any law. Watchman Nee gives a great illustration.

Woman marries a man (the Law). Unfortunately he's very demanding and requires absolute perfection. But at the same time he refuses to lift his finger to help his wife to fulfill his requirements.

Actually, illustration then breaks down in this example. But anyway...

The woman then married Christ, who is just as demanding, maybe even more so (read the sermon on the mount!). However, he enables his wife to fulfil his demands. Hurrah!

So yeah, Jesus did become the law. But that means that he helps us fulfil his requirements by his grace. A lot of Christians in the West have got this idea that there is no law at all. In trying to go against legalism, they've gone into licence. Whereas the opposite actually is grace, which is something different.

But there we go.

Love in Christ

timlings

AlyoshaKaramazov
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 49

Posted 10/30/2003 12:39 PM (GMT -6)

Hey guys,

I was either going to post this on the morality thread or here, I decided to put it here since it deals more with issues in sexual ethics.

This is an article on a club at my alma mater Iowa State University--I think it was published today.
Let's get a discussion going--and feel free to post comments on the story on the website!

http://www.iowastatedaily.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2003/10/30/3fa08dcbcf78b

"You see I have come to doubt all that I once held as true. I stand alone without beliefs, the only truth I know is you."--Paul Simon

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 10/30/2003 1:52 PM (GMT -6)

I hear the Wachowski brothers are into S&M.

People with sin-ladened lives come to desire sad things.

I mutilate my thumbs thanks to my own experience with emotional trauma when I was young.

And I give very hard exams to my students.

I guess that might qualify me as a S&M of sorts.
Knife

dlw

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