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bouncer99
Registered Member

Date Joined Sep 2001
Total Posts : 14

Posted 10/31/2001 7:21 AM (GMT -6)

Jesus says, "any one who has seen me has seen the father"? john 14:9 Is Jesus talking about our spirtual self (our soul) or about the body we wear. Does the body and soul look alike except for the fact that one is invisible and one is not. Has anyone read anything that would point to an answer to this quesiton?

Modes of Thought
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 817

Posted 10/31/2001 10:12 AM (GMT -6)

You yourself are a single person, a single entity. You may speak for the sake of convenience about your having a body, soul, mind, spirit, or what have you. but without any of those, you are not yourself. I don't see the connectuon between the verse you quote and the questions you asked. Help me out.

"Christianly understood, truth is obviously not to know the truth but to be the truth. Despite all modern philosophy, there is an infinite difference here..." SK

Springs
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 636

Posted 11/3/2001 5:48 PM (GMT -6)

I'm curious about your connection too. spill.

1) Jesus says, "anyone who has seen me has seen the father." Is Jesus talking about our spiritual self or about the body we wear.

*Jesus is talking about himself. I always try to start with the spiritual application.
I think it is saying if we know Jesus we know what the father is like.

2)Does the body and soul look alike except for the fact that one is invisible and one is not?

*If I told you, do I have to prove it?

I like to think my spirit is bursting out
of this body. Might be Don might say the overflow is an aura, when he's in his hippy
mood, although I'm sure he was never a new
ager.

3) Has anyone ever read anything that would point to an answer to this question?

uhhhh. no.

*"We know that we shall be like him." After
the resurrection Jesus came to the disciples in the house they were hiding out in. He just appeared among them. I'm guessing Frank Peretti would be assuming that means he wasn't hindered in his movements by physical
stuctures. Yet he ate food with them, and said he would eat with them in paradise. Then when he went up to heaven he flew. bonus. I think our new bodies are going to
be like his resurreted body and they will fit our spirits better, and be more fun.

howszat?
Springer

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 11/3/2001 6:54 PM (GMT -6)

Springs.....do you need some editing?

Springs: "1) Jesus says, "anyone who has seen me has seen the father." Is Jesus talking about our spiritual self or about the body we wear."

Seems that you made the verse able for ME to say, "anyone who has seen me has seen the father." BUT I can't believe that you would want me to say that. (I'd never be caught dead doing so.)

LIGHTENING UP SIGNIFICANTLY...ENOUGH TO ENJOY WHAT YOU WROTE...Ive read some things on the topic, but can't share right now. But most of the best spoke of the BODY and SOUL as a somatic unity (like Modes has remarked on). then some divisions in the soul make it even more interesting. I might get some of that on the two-s thread.

PoW

Edited by - PotOnWheel on 11/04/2001 12:06:06 AM

MrIndifference
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 144

Posted 11/3/2001 7:42 PM (GMT -6)

After the death and ressurection of Christ, the Marys went to the tomb to prepare the body. On the way they saw the "Gardener" who told them that the body of Christ was not there. At first they did not recognize who the gardener was. then later realized it was Jesus himself.

The deciples were hiding out fearing for their lives. They heard from the Marys that Christ was not in His grave and how He had risen. Thomas made the statement that he would not believe the story until he was able to put his finger into the wounds. Then later the ressurected Christ showed up. I don't think he recognized Jesus at first. That is until he saw the wounds.

It seems to me that there was a definite change involved. You would think that they would recognize Christ standing in front of them, especially after living with him for three years. I see a definite change, yet the scars were still there.

When we come to salvation through Christ, we go through a radical change in who we are. God starts changing our personality, how we view life, our attitudes, our likes, our dislikes, He forgives us of our sins and heals us. Through all the changes God makes in our lives, the one thing that never changes are our scars. We become totally new people, but our pasts are always going to be there. Scars are wounds healed over. Instead of areas of pain and suffering, they become signs of what we have been through. They become strengths.

God told us to be salt to the world. I believe that part of what makes us salty are our battle wounds. They show the pain we have suffered and the healing God has done in our lives. Someone that is going through divorce is not going to listen to the advice of one who has never been hurt by a relationship, but they are more apt to listen to someone who has seen pain and suffering. It becomes a tool of healing. I believe that those scars will be with us for all of eternity. They help make us who we are.

Speaking about Might'y Don and the aura thing. Have any of you had the experience where someone very close to you walks into the house and you know they are there. You don't hear them, you don't see them, but yet you know they are present. Or when someone is praying for you and you feel them lifting you up to God? Well I think that part of how the Marys and the deciples finally recognized Christ. Not necessarily by the physical appearance, but more by the His spiritual presence. (I admit I am a little out there right now. I tend to be more of a mystic than a philosopher.)

Does this help at all?

Mr I.

trosie
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 550

Posted 11/4/2001 3:14 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Mr Indifference: Through all the changes God makes in our lives, the one thing that never changes are our scars. We become totally new people, but our pasts are always going to be there. Scars are wounds healed over. Instead of areas of pain and suffering, they become signs of what we have been through. They become strengths

I like how you put that! And these can include both our emotional as well as physical scars. There can be much wisdom found through experience IF we direct it towards healing and renewal in Christ.

quote:
bouncer 99: Does the body and soul look alike except for the fact that one is invisible and one is not

Having just gone through the experience of having someone die, I too question the spirit/body connection. When a person physically dies their body remains but the life within them is no longer there -- what's up with that? The conclusion I draw is that our physical bodies are a means for us to tote ourselves around in while living in this world. It's a means given in order that we can recognize one another. The exterior body is simply a shell containing the essence of the life within it. If our physical body was permanently changed due to an accident our essence would remain the same despite the change in our physical appearance. This demonstrates how disconnected our essence (spirit) is from what we walk around in (our shell). Doesn't it sometimes appear that our physical bodies are more of a hindrance for us than anything else? It's almost as though God created the physical bodies due to the fall of the human race -- we became naked in the garden. Due to the fall in the garden we see through our fleshly eyes, but when we are raised up into heaven we will once again be able to see with our spiritual eyes hence will no longer need our fleshly bodies. Think about this, how many of us really want to have our current physical bodies with us in paradise(UGH)?

I believe that who we are lies beneath the surface. The things of this world (including our physical bodies) pass away but our spirit lives on into eternity. We are the essence of what lies beneath.
trosie

Edited by - trosie on 11/04/2001 08:22:33 AM

Edited by - trosie on 11/04/2001 08:27:11 AM

Springs
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 636

Posted 11/4/2001 4:32 PM (GMT -6)

Hey POW,
I was quoting Bouncer. I should have been more clear, used the quote thingy and all that. My reply was that Jesus wasn't talking about us at all. He was talking about himself. If you have seen me you definetely haven't seen the father. ha.

Sorry about the editing. Or lack thereof as it were.

I'll be looking for your soul divisions.

Profound post Mr. I. The part about the spiritual discernment is interesting. I'm not sure if we sense them ourselves or if the spirit tells us, but I have experienced similar things.

blessings to the tea rose.

-Springs

Edited by - Springs on 11/04/2001 9:33:03 PM

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 11/4/2001 5:19 PM (GMT -6)

Springs: Sorry about the editing. Or lack thereof as it were.

PoW: Thatnks for taking my jest. I KNEW....

Springs
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 636

Posted 11/4/2001 5:36 PM (GMT -6)

ahh, gotcha.

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