 |
Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Questions about Christianity > (No Subject)
| Forum Quick Jump
|
| 
MrIndifference
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 144
| Posted 12/9/2001 7:32 PM (GMT -6) |   | quote:
22And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.”
23”If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any they are retained.” (John 20.22-23)
quote:
15“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. 16But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ 17And if he refuses to hear them, tell it to the church. But if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.
18“Assuredly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.(Matthew 18.15-18)
When you look at the Old Testament every reference to forgiveness is in reference to Gods forgiveness of mans sins. In order for there to be forgiveness in the Old Testament, there were two requirements that needed to be fulfilled. First there had to be a blood sacrifice, which required a spotless lamb, and there had to be true repentance.
When Christ died on the cross, we were given the power and authority to forgive sins. He was the required sacrificial lamb for the forgiveness of sins. Before that, God was the only one who was able to do that.
- If you are truly repentant you will ask for forgiveness.
- If you don’t ask for forgiveness, then you do not have a repentant heart.
- Un-repentance = Sin = Bondage.
- Forgiveness will only be granted to a repentant heart.
- If your brother asks you for forgiveness with a repentant heart, you are required to forgive him.
- If you don’t forgive your brother, God will not forgive you…Thus you are bound to sin.
- If your brother sins against you, you are required to tell him of the offense. This is conviction. If you do not tell him, you deny him the chance of repentance.
- Sooner or later all bondage must be dealt with.
Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. 4Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others. Philippians 2.3-4
Mr I. | | Back to Top | | |
 |
n/a
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 218
| Posted 12/9/2001 7:36 PM (GMT -6) | | BRAVO MR.I,*claps enthusiastically* I was wondering about those verses. Thanks for clarifying that.
Peace
Paul
Our natural greatness is seen as part of God's image, and that natural greatness has been conferred on us to enable us to achieve our supernatural destiny:to be related to God and to obey him freely.---Diogenes Allen | | Back to Top | | |
|
MrIndifference
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 144
| Posted 12/9/2001 8:52 PM (GMT -6) | | The way I see it, forgiveness is actually a three step process.
1. I must inform the person that offended me.
2. They must repent of their transgression against me.
3. I must forgive them for what happened.
Of course there can be some slight variations to this like me misunderstanding the person in the first place, etc. Each step of the forgiveness process holds some form of bondage. That bondage continues to switch hands until there is forgiveness.
This should almost be on the "Three-ness" Thread.
Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. 4Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interests of others. Philippians 2.3-4
Mr I. | | Back to Top | | |
|
PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 12/10/2001 12:59 AM (GMT -6) | | Mr. I. -- this is my PRE coffe posting.
Let me fine tune...
quote:
The way I see it, forgiveness is actually a three step process.
1. I must inform the person that offended me.
2. They must repent of their transgression against me.
3. I must forgive them for what happened.
Of course there can be some slight variations to this like me misunderstanding the person in the first place, etc. Each step of the forgiveness process holds some form of bondage. That bondage continues to switch hands until there is forgiveness.
...by adding that you/I/we still need to deal with #3 NO MATTER whether they repent or not. Somehow. (I told you this was precoffee--my thinker is not perking yet.) Or else we have to "leave our gifts at the altar."
What then (those of you who've had coffee)? | | Back to Top | | |
|
Semeia
Registered Member
Date Joined Aug 2001
Total Posts : 522
| Posted 12/10/2001 4:40 AM (GMT -6) | | Mr. I, What I find interesting about this scripture is that it says "if your brother sins against you" go and deal with it. So often Christians think it is up to them to point out their brother's sins! But our feedback is only useful and appropriate if we are the injured party. This falls in line with the Intent->Behavior->Impact model developed by organizational psychologists.
I like your thoughts here. I will come back when I have more time.
Thanks,
Semeia
"The opposite of sin is not virtue, but faith."--Soren Kierkegaard | | Back to Top | | |
|
Springs
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 636
| Posted 12/10/2001 4:41 AM (GMT -6) | | Coffeed up and ready to go.
Course I should be going to writing and cleaning but I'm already anticipating my
Christmas withdrawal from the board.
I agree with our uncaffinated one. The Doc
calls it forgiveness without reconciliation.
Springs
"God has instituted prayer so as to confer upon his creatures the dignity of being causes." — Blaise Pascal
| | Back to Top | | |
|
Magneton
Registered Member
Date Joined Aug 2001
Total Posts : 132
| Posted 12/11/2001 6:54 AM (GMT -6) | | MrI, quote:
The way I see it, forgiveness is actually a three step process.
1. I must inform the person that offended me.
2. They must repent of their transgression against me.
3. I must forgive them for what happened.
I think this three-step process is closer to what I would call reconciliation. I agree with PoW: forgiveness can occur without steps 1 and 2, and as you indicate, can bring the offended person freedom from bitterness. This is partly a matter of semantics; what do we mean by forgiveness?
We usually think of forgiveness as a transaction between two people; one person tells another that they forgive them, and the other receives or accepts this forgiveness. I'll call this Transactional Forgiveness. (There may be an accepted term for this, but for now I'll just define my own.)
Other times we say that we forgive a person independent of communicating it to them. I'll call this Internal Forgiveness. For example, we often hear of the freedom experienced by crime victims who have forgiven the offender, without an actual encounter or opportunity for communication.
Neil T. Anderson, in The Bondage Breaker (p. 196-8), uses the term in the second, internal sense:
quote:
You don't forgive someone merely for their sake; you do it for your sake so you can be free. Your need to forgive isn't an issue between you and the offender; it's between you and God.
Forgiveness is agreeing to live with the consequences of another person's sin. Forgiveness is costly; we pay the price of the evil we forgive. Yet you're going to live with those consequences whether you want to or not; your only choice is whether you will do so in the bitterness of unforgiveness or the freedom of forgiveness. That's how Jesus forgave you - He took the consequences of your sin upon Himself. All true forgiveness is substitutional, because no one really forgives without bearing the penalty of another person's sin.
… I have seen many people forgive unspeakable atrocities with a great deal of emotion, but the freedom which resulted was tremendous. Don't try to rationalize or explain the offender's behavior. Forgiveness deals with your pain, not another's behavior.
Powerful stuff! In this view, forgiveness brings freedom to the offended one. If communicated to and accepted by the offender, it contributes to reconciliation. Anderson's thoughts are remindful of the Intent->Behavior->Impact model that Semeia and Iconoclast have discussed, and is part of how we become people of OUTRAGEOUS MERCY, to use Doc's term.
Blessings,
Magneton
It is impossible to design a system so perfect that no one needs to be good. - T. S. Eliot
Edited by - magneton on 12/11/2001 11:58:32 AM | | Back to Top | | |
|
MrIndifference
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 144
| Posted 12/11/2001 8:02 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Magneton: I think this three-step process is closer to what I would call reconciliation. I agree with PoW: forgiveness can occur without steps 1 and 2, and as you indicate, can bring the offended person freedom from bitterness. This is partly a matter of semantics; what do we mean by forgiveness?
You are very correct in stating that #1 and #2 are not necessarily needed, but at the same time I think they play important roles. Transactional and Internal Forgiveness have their own time and place. Internal Forgiveness is good when you have little to no contact with the person that offended you or if you know that an attempt at Transactional Forgiveness is simply going to cause more division. At the same time, what you call "Reconciliation" is a big part of the forgiveness process. The reason why we forgive is to both reconcile with God and also the one to whom you have unforgiveness. If you think about it, if you don't let the other person know that they have offended you, you rob them of the possibility of growth. Reconciliation can result in the effects of "Judgement" without actually having to judge them.
Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. Philippians 2.3-4
Mr I.
Edited by - mrindifference on 12/11/2001 3:16:26 PM | | Back to Top | | |
| Forum Information | Currently it is Monday, November 09, 2026 3:29 PM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 97,718 posts in 6,040 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 0 new threads and 0 reply posts. View Active Threads
|
Forum powered by dotNetBB v2.42EC SP3
dotNetBB © 2000-2026 |
|
|