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Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cross sea and land to make a single convert, and you make the new convert twice as much a child of hell as yourselves. Woe to you, blind guides….You blind fools!…You blind Pharisee! (Mt. 23:15-17)

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would you care to explain this a little more/

>>>avant guard experimental orthodox Jewish Catholic>>>

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I agree with LS. I've heard of Messianic Jews before, but never a Jewish Catholic. Please enlighten us ex.

p.s. do you mean avant-garde?

Jared

"God is not a micro-manager"

Edited by - dash on 01/03/2002 11:30:37 PM

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Evangelism and proselytism: It isn’t clear to me how you can have one without the other in Christianity. Evangelism implies conversion to Christianity rather than a generic cause or faith, hence proselytism. I’m not sure what distinctions people are making in their heads, but feel free to go ahead and explain them. Are you trying to make a philosophical distinction? Definitionally the two go hand in hand.

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Two things. First of all, this is perhaps one of those cases where etymological analysis could be beneficial. Why? Because I've just done an cross examination between dictionaries on evangelism...and this is what I got...

(The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition)
e·van·gel·ism (-vnj-lzm)
n.
Zealous preaching and dissemination of the gospel, as through missionary work.
Militant zeal for a cause.


(Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary)
evangelism \E*van"gel*ism\n. The preaching or promulgation of the gospel.


(WordNet)
evangelism n : conversion resulting from the zeal of crusading advocacy of the gospel


To me the only one that comes closest is the Webster's. If you notice, it is the LEAST BIASED definition. It describes what evangelism IN ESSENCE is (as I will try to later demonstrate). Clearly, one can see that some obvious bias has filtered in. The use of the words "militant", "zealous", and "crusading" are DEAD giveaways! Webster's introduces the central ideas: 1) preaching 2) promulgation and 3)gospel without all the connotative verbage. I think it's the most balanced definition.

yet...

Perhaps, I had the Greek more in mind when I conceptualized this. The words "proselyte" and "evangelize" are derived from Greek terms. Those terms are proselytos and euangelidzo (which comes from euangelion). The Louw-Nida Greek Lexicon says this about the word "proselytos":

A Gentile who had converted to Judaism.

Other lexicons seem to validate this. The central idea is upon CONVERSION, specifically that of introducting people into the ways and customs of what it meant to be a Jew.


The Louw-Nida Greek Lexicon says this about the word "euangelidzo":

To tell the good news, to communicate good news concerning something (in the NT a particular reference to the gospel message about Jesus) - 'to tell the good news, to announce the gospel.'

Again, other lexicons seem to back this idea. The central idea here is the COMMUNICATION (primarily through telling or proclamation) of GOOD NEWS.

Now, some insights. Notice again that PROSELYTOS here deals specifically with CONVERSION where the primary intent is to indoctrinate. Whereas EVANGELIDZO deals with the PROCLAIMING of good news to others. Very important!

But that's not all folx...

The word "proselytos" is not used very often in the New Testament. But there's one notable place where it is....

Matthew 23:15 (NIV)
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are."

Now, three guesses which word in the Scripture above is the translation of "proselytos"? Yep. Convert. But what's even MORE interesting is the context in which this is said. Jesus is talking to the religious leaders scornfully about their zeal to win converts, up to traveling "over land and sea..." The intention was NOT on proclaiming the good news of God, but to make more people LIKE THEMSELVES! Think about it. Isn't this the very thing that you, Empiress, are arguing against?


But it's quite interesting. When we look at the word "euangelidzo", it literally PEPPERS the entire New Testament, including discriptions of the acts of Jesus.

Matthew 11:5 (NIV)
The blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy are cured, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is preached to the poor.

Luke 16:16 (NIV) "The Law and the Prophets were proclaimed until John. Since that time, the good news of the kingdom of God is being preached, and everyone is forcing his way into it.

Now, let's back up. One thing we must notice is that we are NOT talking about making CONVERTS...but we ARE talking about active COMMUNICATION via proclamation (preaching) Yes, Jesus's actions of love BACKED the message, but the Gospel WAS PROCLAIMED. And it was, as you know, a take it or leave it thing. There was no force. No indoctination. Just proclamation of the good news to accept or reject. And again, the chief idea of the preaching is to BEAR WITNESS to the glorious works of God, not merely to make converts.

If I am being redundant, please forgive me. But I feel this EXTREMELY important:

Proselytism's CENTRAL FOCUS is the conversion of people into a certain belief, with the goal of making more people like themselves. Evangelism's CENTRAL FOCUS is the COMMUNICATION of Good News by WITNESSES.


My thoughts. What has happened is that, in many cases, the true spirit of what "evangelism" is supposed to be has been lost and replaced by a genuine spirit of proselytism. It's no longer about people who have touched, seen, and felt the grace, love and peace of God in Christ BEARING WITNESS to what they have IN Christ. It's become CENTRALLY about bringing people from the "lost" category to the "saved" category. This is straight up proselytism of the worst kind! Why? Because it's fundamentally grounded on a truth of people being lost. Therefore, people feel JUSTIFIED in their proselytism and take on a "by any means necessary" attitude towards missiology. "Well, you don't want those people to be lost, do you? Neither do I. THAT's why I do what I do." But these well-meaning people have seemed to miss the whole point. We were never called to SAVE anyone! We were NOT called to convert people to "saved" people. We were called to be WITNESSES to the light in Christ. Christ is the saving agent. We are to be lanterns that BEAR witness to the light of Christ, in our COMMUNICATION of the gospel by way of proclamation AND good living! And in that communication, it is our HOPE that people listen and want to get on the train with us. Think Mars Hill with Paul. Not contrast this with the process of making a Jewish convert. This is the very BIG difference between proselytism and evangelism. As you can hopefully see, they are worlds apart.


Having said all this, I perceive that there is a valid point being made here. I don't think what some of you guys have so much of a problem with is "evangelism" per se. I think some of you may have the concern that in our time where words are often many while true INTEGRITY with those words is so sparce, solely proclaiming of the message BY WAY OF SOLEY PREACHING just ain't gonna cut it. Just telling people WHAT to do while not EMBODYING the principles of which they speak ain't gonna cut it anymore. With this, I would agree. ACTIONS do speak louder than words. However, this does NOT mean that the words go away...especially when the words are TESTIMONIAL! Jesus testified to the Truth of God...and lived it. That's all. And that's all we have to do. We don't need to get rid of preaching or even diminish it's use. What needs to happen is the reclaiming of what "evangelism" REALLY means. Think about it, Empiress. You speak about love and service, doesn't it matter from whence they flow? With true evangelism, the love and service to others should flow from a definite place: the PERSONAL INTERNALIZATION of the reality of the Gospel. Have I got a witness?


Ouch. I guess I'm done. My hands are cramping. Later...

All about Missions and Evangelism,


Love God. Love People. Love Truth. Dedicate your all to that which you love.