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johnmd
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2002
Total Posts : 154
| Posted 1/11/2004 5:58 PM (GMT -6) |   | Dr Boyd
Help me work through a question re: Job.
I have heard you discuss Job's "theology" referencing many of the obviously wrong things that Job concludes and comparing those "wrong" statements with the statement Job made in Chapter 1, "The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away"(vs. 21). The inference that I have drawn seems to be that the validity of the Chapter 1 statement is called into question because Job's theology is so errant in subsequent chapters.
However, vs. 22 says that "In all this Job did not sin nor charge God with wrong." Indicating that "The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away" paradigm in vs. 21 is "accurate" theology on Job's part.
Assuming this is the case, are we given any clues elsewhere that renders this apparent mode of action in relating to man on the part of God less arbitrary than it appears in this verse?
Thanks,
John | | Back to Top | | |
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wondering04
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 45
| Posted 1/12/2004 5:16 PM (GMT -6) | | Again, thanks for this board, and thanks for your caring and thoughtful remarks. I am wrestling with these concepts, and it is tough. I guess though, that some thoughts are changing sort of, and I am beginning to be resigned to the idea that God could not micro-manage everything. But I am still dealing with the effects of the fact that God has not chosen to protect me. That I was the fodder. It still doesn't sit well and I still feel a tremendous amount of anger towards God
I know people are pointing out that Job is an epic poem. What concerns me is that somehow I get the idea that people are picking and choosing what is inspired word of God, and what is literary epic poems, that may or may not have basis on what really happened. I don't know how we, with our limited understanding, can really decide what should be taken literally and what can be brushed aside as literaly elements. It seems that that could be a dangerous road to take and make it easier to push the Bible to mean what WE want it to mean instead of what it means. I think that there are so many problems with interpretation that it can lead to division, and honestly I don't have a good answer for this.
G.Boyd: Its interesting, but Job said A LOT of VERY nasty things about God throughout this book (basically called him SATAN -- the adversary...). And God certainly puts him in his place when he shows up at the end, showing how he was arrogant and presumptuous and simplistic in his theology. Job repents of his theology. Yet, God is angry with him as he is with Job's friends (ch.42). In fact, God says that Job spoke "right" or "straight" (hebrew = koon).
The point seems to be that while Job's friends theologized in a self-serving way, indicting Job to protect themselves, Job theologized -- however inaccurately -- from the HEART. He spoke what was true to him. He had an honest relationship with God --- and God loves that, EVEN WHEN he has to correct the theology around it.
This is a God who wants a true, honest, vulnerable, authentic relationship with us.... one that arises from THE HEART.
Heather: That is a good point, but not one that I have really received in practice. I have found that if you say anything that remotely expresses anger towards God, disappointment in God, or anything that is not the Christian Party Line, that you get reamed. I would like to think that God really cares about what is on our hearts, but then people state that if you speak against God, or grumble, or murmer like the Israelites do, that basically God will get angry, take back any blessings that he was about to give you, and that you can really blow your relationship with Him. In other words, tread very softly on eggshells with God if you know what is good for you.
I keep running into people who tell me to crawl into Jesus' lap, let him cover you with his protecting arms, etc. How in the world does one do that? For me, the problem may not even be God and his response, but me. I suspect that I drive God crazy, wanting him close, but being terified of that prospect as well.
I wish there was a book out there that gave simple instructions on those who never experienced unconditional love from parents, and how they can then form such a relationship with God. Is it possible that some are just too damaged? The way I see it, God has either hardened my heart, or my inner being is so damaged that there is no way God can reach it, either way, the relationship stuff just doesn't work.
Am reading God of the Possible. Maybe some of that stuff will rub off and make sense. I wish there was a simple answer.
Heather
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