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Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Questions about Christianity > Meph Shares His Heart, Part 3

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Corey
Five with a Four-wing

Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1893

Posted 6/21/2006 11:05 AM (GMT -6)

Maybe it has something to do with our individual wiring. I'm not primarily motivated by "move-away", so for me, I can't honestly say that fear was driving my commitment to Calvinism. I simply believed it because it was the fact revealed in the Word of God, I was taught. I was "moving-toward" the Truth. The problem was, I didn't have categories to understand that I was conflating theology with absolute truth.

This is good example that any finite system necessarily excludes important notions, as we read the other night in our group. I was specifically trained to not let my emotional response guide me. Fact-Faith-Feeling. But now I see that I shouldn't have excluded my emotional response from informing me that something was not right.

Post Edited (Corey) : 6/21/2006 11:15:09 AM (GMT-5)

Sahid
Megistered Rember

Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 2013

Posted 6/21/2006 3:57 PM (GMT -6)

lol that review is good!

Anyway, yeah, I'm convinced cognitive dissonance is a huge force in Western culture. At every major turning point on my spiritual journey I've felt that temptation. It's a voice saying, "Are you really going to follow what you think is the truth even if it leads to a Jeremiah-like existence suffering and loss?" Strangely, I thank my conservative upbringing for providing me the courage to leave that very upbringing behind. I'm still very greatful for the Baptist principals of soul-competency and following the Bible/truth (which at the time were the same thing) wherever it led.

Very rarely is it a matter of laying out the facts. It's more often a matter of inspiring the courage. That gives hope to those of us who are not unfailingly intelligent.

Watch me fly. Freedom like wings and I will use them. Freedom like wings and I will spread them wide. - Stavesacre

JEE
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 1466

Posted 6/24/2006 11:26 AM (GMT -6)

Interesting, Meph. Since I never have been a Calvinist or a determinist, I can't relate too well to your experience, though I can definitely relate to the basic morally repulsed reaction to determinism you are now experiencing. I've never really known anything but moral repulsion at the thought of theological determinism.

Even before I came to realize that I had been basically an Open Theist all my life (after reading some articles on Open Theism by Boyd, Pinnock, and Sanders on the web back in 1999) I had always FELT nothing but utter contempt for the all-determining God as portrayed by John Calvin et al. Defining the biblicist view of prayer, freewill, etc., which I had basically believed all my life, as officially "Open Theism" was not difficult at all for me.

One Love
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888

Posted 12/6/2007 8:46 AM (GMT -6)

Just reading over some old stuff again. Amazing...

Mephistopheles, the Devil's Advocate:
Even IF Jesus and Jesus's limited atonement work really did happen under this schema...even if Jesus really DID raise from the dead..., it wouldn't mean a DAMN THING to me. Nothing. Why would it? How in the world could I trust Jesus to save me...when HE is, in a real way, the incarnation of the most evil being I have ever conceptualized in my life?

Jesus, Lord of all Creation, forgive the fragmented "person" that said such childish, selfish things.

Lord have mercy on the well meaning, but hurting blasphemous egotist who said this.

Keep the old man in his "grave", Lord. Surely by now, he stinketh...

(This was written during one of "Meph's" deeply depressive times. He was having suicidal ideations when he wrote this... )

God can truly make dead dry bones to live again. :-)

"For it is said, 'The two will become one flesh.' But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in Spirit.

"For those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God. The Spirit you received does not make you slaves, so that you live in fear again; rather, the Spirit you received brought about your adoption to sonship. And by him we cry, 'Abba, Father.' The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God's children."

Similitude
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 4968

Posted 12/6/2007 7:08 PM (GMT -6)

I like what Samuel told Saul: Rebellion is as witchcraft. IOW, we've all been there. That puts it into perspective. Thanks be to God for His amazing grace!

Post Edited (jefscott) : 12/6/2007 8:32:57 PM (GMT-6)

Tom
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353

Posted 12/7/2007 10:59 AM (GMT -6)

Oh my gosh! You were hard-core Bro. Hard Core.

T

One Love
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888

Posted 12/7/2007 11:52 AM (GMT -6)

Yessir.

And that was just June of last year, Tom.

Not that long ago...at all.

Solely by the grace of God, go I...ever and on.

"For it is said, 'The two will become one flesh.' But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in Spirit.

Corey
Five with a Four-wing

Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1893

Posted 12/8/2007 8:06 AM (GMT -6)

I don't mean this to be sassy or disrespectful or whatever, but in another year from now you may be saying the same sort of thing about your current views. "Lord have mercy on the well meaning, but hurting blasphemous egotist who said he shares the same essence as the Most High."

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 12/8/2007 9:27 AM (GMT -6)

Corey said...
I don't mean this to be sassy or disrespectful or whatever, but in another year from now you may be saying the same sort of thing about your current views. "Lord have mercy on the well meaning, but hurting blasphemous egotist who said he shares the same essence as the Most High."

Clarification: Does D. say that the "shares the same essence" (knows God in His essence)?

(o)

One Love
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 13888

Posted 12/8/2007 11:41 AM (GMT -6)

Corey:
I don't mean this to be sassy or disrespectful or whatever, but in another year from now you may be saying the same sort of thing about your current views. "Lord have mercy on the well meaning, but hurting blasphemous egotist who said he shares the same essence as the Most High."

Whatever I need to repent for, let the Lord just bring it on. I've been wrong on so much stuff in my life...one more thing is just one more thing. With respect to what I wrote about Jesus last year, I just couldn't believe that I had said that there was a condition in my belief system that would render Jesus' sacrifice such that it wouldn't mean a "damn thing" to me. Plus I remember what thoughts were going through my mind when I wrote what I wrote. I really was a "hurting blasphemous egotist" suffering deeply from traits of deep narcissism. That's just straight up rebellion...just like Jeff said. Rebellion from ignorance and pain my mind was suffering from. Lord, continue to have mercy!

"For it is said, 'The two will become one flesh.' But whoever is united with the Lord is one with him in Spirit.

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 12/8/2007 1:13 PM (GMT -6)

God bless you, D.

(o)

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