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DLW
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Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457
  		   Posted 4/1/2004 3:08 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Title: CNN.com - Bush signs bill making it crime to harm fetus - Apr 1, 2004

http://www.emailthis.clickability.com/et/emailThis?clickMap=viewThis&etMailToID=270224090&pt=Y

I'm not sure what to think about this.

I believe the abortion debate is ultimately about the legal redefinition of when human life begins.

The law signed by Bush Thursday is limited in scope, applying only to harm to a fetus while a federal crime, such as a terrorist attack or drug-related shooting, is being committed against the pregnant mother. The legislation defines a potential victim as "a member of the species homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb."

This sets a precedent for legal personhood to be extended to the fetus at all stages of pregnancy, which will result in much deadlock politically.

It makes no sense for the fetus to be a legal person when its mother is attacked and not otherwise.

dlw

Niebuhr thought that sustained moral energy in politics depended on religion's power to mobilize reason along with self-transcending love. The prophetic tradition, meanwhile, gave Jews and Christians some protection against the temptation to identify their social causes with God's will. Lincoln's second inaugural address expressed the prophetic insight, "The almighty has His own purposes."

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Tigress
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Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1252
  		   Posted 4/2/2004 8:20 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
quote:

It makes no sense for the fetus to be a legal person when its mother is attacked and not otherwise.

dlw



Maybe so, but it's a start.

Tigress Tigress

"Name a shrub after me. Preferably one that's prickly and difficult to eradicate."

-Captain Jack Aubrey
"Master and Commander: The Far Side of the World"

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DLW
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Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457
  		   Posted 4/2/2004 11:15 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Sustainable legal changes in abortion law are going to be feasible only if we can get bipartisan support for them.

That will likely mean that ideological tensions between pro-choicers and pro-lifers will have to be reduced. One way to do that is for pro-lifers to accept the limitations to politically making abortions illegal.

The US gov't is too conservatively-structured and so long as they pursue or intend to pursue the sacred cow of many very active and influential voters/interests then their attempts at activism will be checked and compromises will not be forthcoming.

dlw

Niebuhr thought that sustained moral energy in politics depended on religion's power to mobilize reason along with self-transcending love. The prophetic tradition, meanwhile, gave Jews and Christians some protection against the temptation to identify their social causes with God's will. Lincoln's second inaugural address expressed the prophetic insight, "The almighty has His own purposes."

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chance
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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 157
  		   Posted 4/2/2004 3:25 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
We have some momentum going not just with the ban on partial birth abortion and this bill that recognizes a baby at any age as a person, but also with the activism we are promoting in the middle schools and high schools and colleges.

Annie Scheidler's Generations For Life is growing very quickly. Check out her ministry here http://www.prolifeaction.org/generations/

The Center for Bioethical reform is also having an impact alerting people to the fact that abortion is the murder of a person. Their use of trucks to get the proof out on the highways to 100,000s of people a day is paying off. Get info on CBR here www.abortionno.org

And last but not least, Survivors, the ministry I am with and have taken on the responsibility of growing the Northern Indiana Chapter is making an impact on kids in high school and college whereever we hold demonstrations. You can get more info on the Survivors ministry here www.survivors.la

If anyone reading this lives in the Chicago area, I am gonna be in Chicago April 7 participating in a few demonstrations that Joe Scheidler and the gang are holding at some of the colleges there. Get the details on it here http://www.prolifeaction.org/facethetruth/truth2004.htm#spring

With our efforts influencing the young kids in our areas and around the country we cannot lose this battle.

There are so many things that we can do individually to help out. One way that you can bring about change is by wearing the very eye-catching Survivors t-shirts. Check em out here http://www.survivors.la/shirts.htm and if you wanna buy one or more let me know and I may have some available to send to you for free :)

I also think the move to refer to pro-choicers as poor-choicers is a good one. Dr Reardon came up with that term and I believe it will stick the more we use it and expose how much harm abortion causes. There is a lot of research available on the harm it causes women here www.poorchoice.org

Keep pressin on saints!

Here to help,

Quinn Olinger
Director Northern Indiana Chapter Survivors
www.survivors.la
1-877-354-1793

chance

A God who has fixed every detail beforehand may retire or die --Markus Barth

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DLW
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Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457
  		   Posted 4/3/2004 5:21 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
It'd be nice to get some commentary from you on my alternative faith-based abortion position that is posted here...

http://gregboyd.org/gbfront/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1991

The PBA isn't going to prevent any abortions. It'll just force doctors to use a different technique for abortions if it is maintained and it has a good chance of not being maintained.

Also, the US gov't is too conservatively-structured to be captured.
If Roe-V-Wade is overturned then the issue will go to the state level where abortions after the 2nd and 3rd trimester may be made illegal.

But that will just tie up the state gov'ts and further elevate the cultural wars and a whole lot of political capital that could be used to save a lot of lives in other ways.

I prescribe that pro-lifers would be more effective at the legal redefinition of human life if they accepted the political futility of making all abortions illegal.

To this end, it is also important to reconcile ourselves to the fact that there is ambiguity as to when human life/being begins, but that as Christians we should be conservative and not let the ambiguity make us feel like we have a green light to abort on demand at all stages of pregnancy. But on the other hand, there are serious anomalies with the belief that human life begins at conception and this does matter for like "the Morning After pills" that work for the five days after conception before the fetus implants itself in the mother's womb.

dlw

Niebuhr thought that sustained moral energy in politics depended on religion's power to mobilize reason along with self-transcending love. The prophetic tradition, meanwhile, gave Jews and Christians some protection against the temptation to identify their social causes with God's will. Lincoln's second inaugural address expressed the prophetic insight, "The almighty has His own purposes."

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