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1Heart
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Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128
| Posted 4/18/2004 4:51 PM (GMT -6) |   | quote:
Originally posted by borg
So reading many of the Open Theists posts on the problem of evil and reading through Dr. Boyd's book and thinking about it, and even for myself trying to graps a good definition of what evil is, has been a really tricky case for myself. Can anyone help give a definition; not a cause of evil, not an evil act; but the governing system that judges between good and evil. How do I know if something is evil?
Thanks for your help,
Borg
Rom 8:28
Hi once again,
I almost hesitate to venture out here and am feeling fairly brave being the first. I just thought of something that might be a kind of "litmus test" if you will in this regard. I believe that sin is evil. If what you are saying or doing does not demonstrate love for God and/or others, if what you are saying or doing in fact destroys (yourself and/or others) instead of seeking to encourage, build up or console others (why Paul encouraged us all to prophecy), if what you are saying or doing is in direct disobedience to the laws which God has written in our hearts (the ten commandments being an example) - then it is sin (or evil). All sin is ultimately against God. God is the only judge although there are definite consequences here and now for sin (evil) as well as eternal consequences.
I do believe that evil is about our choices (freewill), the free will of other agents (not human) and about the complexity of creation. I do not believe that freewill is possible without the potential for evil.
I'm sure I've just touched on one facet of evil, which by the way, does not shine like a diamond...poor metaphor!
God Bless (hoping this wasn't a trap),
Jo-Anne 
"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."
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Truth Aficionado
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Date Joined Dec 2003
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| Posted 4/18/2004 5:55 PM (GMT -6) | | | Sin is first conceived in our mind, and then by our choices,it is ultimately manifested as a rebellion against God's will. The will of God centers around the two Great Commandments given by Jesus, love and love. | | Back to Top | | |
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John Earp
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Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1715
| Posted 4/18/2004 7:43 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by borg
So reading many of the Open Theists posts on the problem of evil and reading through Dr. Boyd's book and thinking about it, and even for myself trying to graps a good definition of what evil is, has been a really tricky case for myself. Can anyone help give a definition; not a cause of evil, not an evil act; but the governing system that judges between good and evil. How do I know if something is evil?
Thanks for your help,
Borg
Rom 8:28
Great question, Borg,
(BTW, hope your semester is going well).
What is the definition of evil? Scripture seems to steadily juxtapose evil with GOOD. So I think the more important question would have to be "what is good?"
Below is a good definition I found at dictionary.com. (I have bolded portions I found pertinent to a discussion such as we are having).
1. Possessing desirable qualities; adapted to answer the end designed; promoting success, welfare, or happiness; serviceable; useful; fit; excellent; admirable; commendable; not bad, corrupt, evil, noxious, offensive, or troublesome, etc.
And God saw everything that he had made, and behold, it was very good. --Gen. i. 31.
2. Possessing moral excellence or virtue; virtuous; pious; religious; -- said of persons or actions.
In all things showing thyself a pattern of good works. --Tit. ii. 7.
3. Kind; benevolent; humane; merciful; gracious; polite; propitious; friendly; well-disposed; -- often followed by to or toward, also formerly by unto.
I especially want to note the ideas of benevolence, mercifulness, propitiousness, moral excellence, and "adapted to answer the end designed."
From the above, I find that anything that does not answer the purpose for which it was designed is "evil." Further, anything less than benevolent is evil. Benevolence is the eternal moral law of the universe; specifically, desiring and acting towards the highest good of ALL, with no selfish motives attached.
Evil is at its root grounded in selfishness, self-seeking, self-promotion at the expense of others.
Just some preliminary thoughts on a very difficult-to-define question.
Your thoughts?
John
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feelinahole
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| Posted 4/18/2004 7:52 PM (GMT -6) | | | I can't always define it but I usually know it when I see it. | | Back to Top | | |
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Tom
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| Posted 4/18/2004 7:55 PM (GMT -6) | | borg: Can anyone help give a definition; not a cause of evil, not an evil act; but the governing system that judges between good and evil. How do I know if something is evil?
Tom: I don’t think there is a governing system that judges between good and evil. There is God revealed—in Old Testament law certainly, in human conscience (Rom 2), but supremely in Jesus Christ and the love that took him to the Cross. There is the law of love. That’s it.
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borg
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Total Posts : 324
| Posted 4/18/2004 8:08 PM (GMT -6) | | Thank you for the answers you two gave me; i have some follow-up questions I would like to ask as well.
Moon-river; you define evil as whatever destroys or does not encourage is evil. What do you mean by destroy and encourage? Destroy as in life? encourage as in making one feel good about themselves? I would likewise ask you what your definition of sin is. You said anything opposed to God is sin? Does God ever "oppose" His own law?
spark, would you be willing to say that anything that goes against the two greatest commandments is evil?
John, I like how you define GOOD, but don't know if the dictionary definition is something that we should take as authority. For it is good that Christ suffered, and it is good that I suffer; and yet i have problems thinking that the dictionary would hold such a view. And would you therefore say that evil is the opposite of good, in all areas? And if evil is grounded in selfishness, is it "evil" of God to seek His own glory through "free moral agents" as you would say we are?
fellinahole, how do you discern in your heart if it is evil? Would you say that if you had seen Christ die on the cross, in the immediate, you would have said that this was "evil"? That an innocent man should suffer for the unrighteous? How do you know when your senses are confirming the truth of evil?
TGB, you wouldn't therefore follow by saying that evil is anything opposed to the law of love? What is your definition of love? and could you clarify what you meant in the revealed things of the Old Testament and New Testament.
all, thank you very much for your responses. I won't have time to reply to all posts, but will try to respond accordingly and with more follow-up questions that interest me. I appreciate your help and perhaps by working through this together, we can get a better understanding of what "evil" is. Thank you very much for your responses, they are all very interesting.
Blessings,
Borg
1 Sam 2:25
"So it is a more glorious work of power to uphold a soul in a state of grace and holiness, and to carry it on till it is brought to glory, when there is so much sin remaining in the heart resisting, and Satan with all his might opposing, than it would have been to have kept manfrom falling at first, when Satan had nothing in man." Edwards | | Back to Top | | |
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feelinahole
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| Posted 4/18/2004 8:14 PM (GMT -6) | | Borg: how do I know what is evil in my heart? Conscience, I suppose. My response was more of a physical sight thing. What happened to Jesus was supremely evil. Good came out of it, but the act itself was evil. How could it not be?
I do not think we can, many times, define evil. We just know it is. | | Back to Top | | |
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John Earp
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| Posted 4/18/2004 8:18 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by borg
spark, would you be willing to say that anything that goes against the two greatest commandments is evil?
I should have added to my above post that yes indeed, anything that goes against the two greatest commandments (aka the law of love) is in fact evil.
quote:
John, I like how you define GOOD, but don't know if the dictionary definition is something that we should take as authority. For it is good that Christ suffered, and it is good that I suffer; and yet i have problems thinking that the dictionary would hold such a view.
It is good that Christ suffered in that it was for the benevolent purpose of the highest good of ALL that He chose to suffer.
quote:
And would you therefore say that evil is the opposite of good, in all areas?
Yes. Evil is the precise opposite of good (I am assuming we are speaking of moral evil and moral good).
quote:
And if evil is grounded in selfishness, is it "evil" of God to seek His own glory through "free moral agents" as you would say we are?
It is not evil for God to seek to be glorified through moral agents (which, BTW, are by definition free in my view), as God truly deserves to be worshipped, glorified, and honored by all and in all. It is not selfish for God to command us to worship Him, for He is above all WORTHY of all praise and honor and glory.
Further, as He created us for the purpose of worshipping and fellowshipping with Him, when we do so, we are "answering the purpose for which we were designed," and therefore it is not selfish or egotistical of God to expect us to do as He designed us to do (worship Him).
"The Discovery of new truth will modify old views and opinions, and there is perhaps no end to this process with finite minds in any world." Charles G. Finney, Systematic Theology.
revivaltheology.net
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borg
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| Posted 4/18/2004 8:23 PM (GMT -6) | | feelinahole, you say that it is your conscience that leads you to discern good and evil; interesting point. But why should i believe that my conscience is telling the truth? often times i have a right conscience in doing something, realizing later that it was perhaps a sin. and how many times have my senses led me astray? I think it is important that if we have a strong theodicy, we should find some meaning to what the "evil" we are trying to justify means. Without defining the term, we leave it ambigious and this has the potential to be disasterous. To trust our intutions is a dangerous things. For someone might say that (A) is evil and another might say that (A) is not evil; case example within the Nazi party. Who are we to trust? Now I can see where you will go with this; but i'm just pointing out that our senses/consciences can lead us astray; how do we know when they are intune with the truth?
also if you would say that the death of Christ was the supreme evil, what of the verses such as Is 53:12 where it says, "It PLEASED the Lord to CRUSH Him"? We have a seemingly paradox at the surface; but I believe can be resolved out easily. If God orchestrated that death of Christ on the cross, then God had to orchestrate the means by which this was done; which is sin. As Edwards would say, the only way Christ could have died for us,it had to be through evil. But we wouldn't charge God with any wrong doing would we? Though it "pleased Him to crush Him"? Why is that?
by grace alone,
borg
"So it is a more glorious work of power to uphold a soul in a state of grace and holiness, and to carry it on till it is brought to glory, when there is so much sin remaining in the heart resisting, and Satan with all his might opposing, than it would have been to have kept manfrom falling at first, when Satan had nothing in man." Edwards | | Back to Top | | |
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Tom
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| Posted 4/18/2004 9:11 PM (GMT -6) | | borg: TGB, you wouldn't therefore follow by saying that evil is anything opposed to the law of love? What is your definition of love? and could you clarify what you meant in the revealed things of the Old Testament and New Testament.
Tom: Eh, let’s see. It certainly seems to be true that something opposed to love would be evil. I can’t think of anything that would be GOOD and also be opposed to the law of love. On the other hand, I can’t think of anything that is loving and selfless which is not also good. So, OK, for the sake of the discussion I’ll say that evil is anything that is opposed to love.
Now to define love. Eh, let’s see. A few good working definitions have been posted here. I remember Mephi had a good one. To move things along, how about something like this: “Love is choosing to value other people as they are loved and valued by God and influencing them in the direction of experiencing and loving God.” Breaking it down, love is a “choice.” A choice “to act.” I can’t conceive of love (for us) that is not a choice. Secondly, it a choice FOR others, based on their inherent God-given worth, WITH RESPECT TO influencing that person to move in God’s direction, fulfilling what God’s purpose for creating them is—an intimate, loving, and Christ-centered existence with God and others. So, yeah. I would call anything that “opposed” a choice to value others and do what one could to bring them into loving and intimate relations with God and others “evil.” And I would call anything that supported and encouraged the choice to value others and do what one could to bring them into loving and intimate relations with God and others “good.”
Yes, this defines “love” and “good” in terms of us and God and not JUST in terms of Godself. I thought that’s what you wanted. What would “love” and “good” be defined as when understood exclusively as existing between Father, Son, and Spirit? Not a whole lot differently (if the terms are to mean anything to us). But that’s another thread.
By what’s “revealed” in the Old and New Testaments, I mean those things clearly defined as good and evil. The Ten Commandments is a good example. The Sermon on the Mount is a good example. It’s possible to relate to these in a faithless and legalistic sort of way (the whole “getting life from the law” thing). But Paul clearly said the law was righteous and good. The Ten Commandments reflect the character of God and tell us, as far as the tell, what is good. It’s good to love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. It’s good to worship no other gods but God. It’s good to honor your parents, to be faithful to your wife, to not steal, etc. You were looking for things that would tell you what’s good and what’s evil. Certainly the Bible does quite a bit of this for us.
In Romans 2 Paul talks about the Gentiles doing by nature what the law of Moses requires, their consciences affirming and condemning them. So our consciences are a source, not the only source and not always a reliable one, but a God-given faculty he intends us to use.
Tom | | Back to Top | | |
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larris
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Date Joined Mar 2004
Total Posts : 181
| Posted 4/19/2004 4:18 AM (GMT -6) | | Quote:
, not an evil act; but the governing system that judges between good and evil. How do I know if something is evil?
First of all what is the "governing system that judges between good and evil"?
John 12:48
He that rejects me, and receives not my words has one that judges him: THE WORD THAT I HAVE SPOKEN, THE SAME SHALL JUDGE HIM in the last day.
All men shall be judged in the end according to God's Word. Therefore it is the Word of God that gives the determining factor to what is good and what is evil. And by so gaining a ACCURATE knowledge of that Word, we then have a source from which to judge the situations that airse in life, as to what is good and what is evil. The written Word is the "governing system", that judges both now, and by which we will be judged by in the end.
Heb. 5:13 For everyone that uses milk is unskilful in THE WORD OF RIGHTEOUSNESS for he is a babe. But strong meat belongs to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
The Word of God is the Word of righteousness. It's purpose it to give a man or woman enough knowledge to be able to look at every situation in life, remember it's teachings and then "discern" or "judge" as to what is good and what is evil. This is something people learn and then practice on a daily basis. Those who are mature, are those who are not just hearers of the Word but DOERS of the Word. They are doers because by reason of use, they have done this and grown adept at judging between good and evil, and especially at choosing to do good instead of evil.
The Word is very clear about what is good and what is evil. I have to disagree that when you sin, you are hurting God. Sin primarily ALWAYS hurts someone else, along with hurting yourself. The only reason it is a sin against God, is because you are actually hurting some one or some thing in God's creation. But as to actually effecting him personally it dose not. And somewhere there is a bunch of scripture about just that fact, that you don't hurt God when you sin, you hurt another man. But I don't have time to find it right now.
larris
"If you continue (abide and live) in my word, then you shall be my disciples indeed, and you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free." Jesus Christ. (John 8:31) | | Back to Top | | |
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1Heart
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Total Posts : 1128
| Posted 4/19/2004 6:46 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by larris
Quote:
The Word is very clear about what is good and what is evil. I have to disagree that when you sin, you are hurting God. Sin primarily ALWAYS hurts someone else, along with hurting yourself. The only reason it is a sin against God, is because you are actually hurting some one or some thing in God's creation. But as to actually effecting him personally it dose not. And somewhere there is a bunch of scripture about just that fact, that you don't hurt God when you sin, you hurt another man. But I don't have time to find it right now.
larris
You reminded me of a book that I read this past year that I had forgotten about, "Most Moved Mover" by G. Boyd. I can't believe that the Father is not moved at all - over our transgressions. We know from scripture that He sings over us (Zephaniah), that He is surprised, disappointed, that He weeps, that He longs gather Israel in his arms, that He is angered... One of the most powerful verses in the N.T. is Jesus wept. Jesus is the exact imprint of the Father, the exact representation of the Father's nature. Sin affected Jesus.
What do others think about this?
Out for my run now. It's a gorgeous, sunny day here
God Bless you all,
Jo-Anne
"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."
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Truth Aficionado
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| Posted 4/19/2004 7:08 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by borg
spark, would you be willing to say that anything that goes against the two greatest commandments is evil?
Hello Borg,
it's good hearing from you.
My simple answer to you is “yes”. But ironically it is NOT that simple to love. St. Paul forgot something when he said love is kind, love is patient, etc. He forgot LOVE IS HARD. Why is love hard? My answer in one word would be relationships. Sin (the fall) topples God's original design for us. Jesus is the “True Image of God”, man was created in the image and likeness of the Triune relationship of the Godhead. We are to model and imitate the second Adam Jesus and the relationship he shares within the Godhead. Sin is everything that destroys relationships both to God and others.
Sin is faith without love, faith to move mountains and cause towering buildings to crumble to the ground. Sin is speaking in tongues, tongues of deception, lies and distortion. Fork tongues that our displayed by cheating hearts full of deceit and betrayal. Elusive tongues with only subtle truth disguised as a hidden mysteries of the unknown. The coy enemy is in all of us, camouflaged to our own eyes, masked in a web of deceit. The devil comes to kill, steal and destroy using lies and deception to make things appear the opposite of the truth. To make death look like life, bad look good. When you believe in the lies you become captive to them, the truth will set you free. You are free to choose who will be your Master, one gives life the other death. Lucifer is very tricky so listen closely; death is disguised as life in the flesh of this fallen world, to choose everlasting life begins when we die to the sin of this cursed world by surrendering to our only savior Jesus Christ. To die to oneself is to give our selves up by means of self-sacrifice(sacrificial love) and to kill all of the old-self that promotes sin. We are free to choose and with our freedom is the accountability of condemning ourselves to hell. The excuse of the dog ate my homework is right up there with God is a loving God and He will take care of me. He is a loving God but we freely make our own bed with either good or evil and a severe punishment will be imposed for the latter. He does not protect us from ourselves; it would appose the laws of the universe to make that choice for us. We are all equal sinners, so don't try and judge your self by comparing your sins to others. If we choose to accept Jesus as our savior, we are still equally screwed up sinners no better then the next guy, we are only better off. The weeds of judgment keeps us on a witch hunt of mankind, always lurking with thirst to pounce on, snap at and lash out on our fellow sinner. Unveiling the sins of others feeds our skeletons we keep locked up in the darkness of our own closets and destroys relationships both to God and others.
The only true way to distinguish love from evil is by the Word and the Fruit that the Spirit bears. And the greatest fruit is love. Love endures all things; it is the only thing that can journey with us when we leave this world. The paradox of love is we can only accumulate it by disposing of it. So if you have any, get rid of it. It is like a game of tag, Borg you're it.
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feelinahole
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| Posted 4/19/2004 8:40 AM (GMT -6) | | Borg: I think, for Christians, it is our conscience tested by the scriptures that would help us see what is evil. But I think evil is hard to define, but is easy to spot (and know in one's heart) when it is there. Of course it would depend too on the lifestyle of the person, for I do believe we each have God's law written on our hearts, but that can be deadened by how we live.
As far as Christ's death, we have been there before. Obviously, given your determinist view of scripture you would see things differently. But to repeat my position:
When it says that God was pleased to crush him (Jesus), scripture does not mean God took pleasure in the pain his son endured. To say such would be to make (in my view) God a very poor Father, a masocristic god. No, what it means is that God was pleased because of what would come about as a result of the suffering.
Second, I do not believe God orchestrated Jesus' death. I believe God knew that, given human nature, if his son came at a certain time, those in power would oppose him and be threatened by him and wish his death (similiar to what happened to Judas). Such a happening would be easy for God to predict, considering he knows all that can be known. As such I do not believe God orchestrated Jesus' death, because that would mean God orchestrated evil, which I do not believe he does... | | Back to Top | | |
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feelinahole
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| Posted 4/19/2004 8:47 AM (GMT -6) | | | Larris: Psalm 51 (I believe). What does David say in verse 4? After having Bathsheba's husband killed and committing adultery, what does he say in his great confession to God? "Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight?" All sin affects God because all sin is an affront to God. | | Back to Top | | |
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Truth Aficionado
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| Posted 4/19/2004 8:53 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by feelinahole
But I think evil is hard to define, but is easy to spot (and know in one's heart) when it is there. Of course it would depend too on the lifestyle of the person, for I do believe we each have God's law written on our hearts, but that can be deadened by how we live.
Hello feelin,
Evil is easy to spot in who's heart, your own or someone elses? And if God's law (moral conscience) is deadened is it still so easy to spot in your own heart?
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borg
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| Posted 4/19/2004 9:00 AM (GMT -6) | | Thank you all for your posts. Let me see if this is what most of you would say, or if I've missed the point completley. Evil seems to be the opposite of love; and love is something that always encourages and builds up; does not destory and is freely chosen. Therefore the opposite of love, evil; would be anything contrary to such things, being deciet, hatred, destruction; and the like. Is this an accurate definition of what everyone would say "evil" is? Let me know if it has to be tweaked at all.
I still feel as though there is a gap in the definition of evil. It seems that perhaps there is a system to discern as you have all written down your ideas, but how do we therefore judge, in the immeditate, whether an action or fruit is evil or good? Am I to assume that all bad things that happen to me is evil? And therefore I suppose it would help to define what "bad" is in the life of a believer and a non-believer, unless you would say they are the same. Does this make sense? Can anything have the appearence of evil and yet be good at it's heart, and therefore not evil? Do the same definitions apply to the God-Head? Also if anyone feels like it, can they more clearly define what love is for me. What does it entail? What does it look like? Is it the same with the God-head? Is love simply what 1 Co 13 lays out?
Looking forward to keeping this one going. Don't feel like you have to answer all my questions, just any that seem of interest.
Blessings,
Borg
Ez 30:23-26
"So it is a more glorious work of power to uphold a soul in a state of grace and holiness, and to carry it on till it is brought to glory, when there is so much sin remaining in the heart resisting, and Satan with all his might opposing, than it would have been to have kept manfrom falling at first, when Satan had nothing in man." Edwards | | Back to Top | | |
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borg
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| Posted 4/19/2004 9:12 AM (GMT -6) | | Feelin, thank you for your post. A follow up question or two on the death of Christ. I can respect how you would believe that God seems to be a horrible God if it pleased God to kill His own Son, that's understandable; misunderstood i believe, but we don't have to go there. Was it Jesus' desire that He be put to death? (and by Jesus I mean the God-head as well). "Not My will but Your will be done." "No one takes my life from Me, but I lay it down that I might take it up again." "Do you not know that you have no power other than that which my Father has given you?" Could God have orchestrated the "evil" as it would appear to sinners and people in the immediate, and yet it was actually "good"? Wasn't it God's will that Jesus should suffer at the hands of His enemies? Was this will of God's an evil will?
Blessings,
Borg
John 15
"So it is a more glorious work of power to uphold a soul in a state of grace and holiness, and to carry it on till it is brought to glory, when there is so much sin remaining in the heart resisting, and Satan with all his might opposing, than it would have been to have kept manfrom falling at first, when Satan had nothing in man." Edwards | | Back to Top | | |
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John Earp
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| Posted 4/19/2004 9:31 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by borg
Feelin, thank you for your post. A follow up question or two on the death of Christ. I can respect how you would believe that God seems to be a horrible God if it pleased God to kill His own Son, that's understandable; misunderstood i believe, but we don't have to go there. Was it Jesus' desire that He be put to death? (and by Jesus I mean the God-head as well). "Not My will but Your will be done." "No one takes my life from Me, but I lay it down that I might take it up again." "Do you not know that you have no power other than that which my Father has given you?" Could God have orchestrated the "evil" as it would appear to sinners and people in the immediate, and yet it was actually "good"? Wasn't it God's will that Jesus should suffer at the hands of His enemies? Was this will of God's an evil will?
Blessings,
Borg
John 15
Scripture clearly reveals that it was God's will that Jesus should die--but this is not evil, in that it was for the highest good of all (benevolence), and was FREELY chosen by Christ. It is not evil if someone takes a bullet for someone else they love. It is the ultimate expression of LOVE, as Christ said, "Greater love has no man that this, than to lay down his life for his friends."
"The Discovery of new truth will modify old views and opinions, and there is perhaps no end to this process with finite minds in any world." Charles G. Finney, Systematic Theology.
revivaltheology.net
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Truth Aficionado
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| Posted 4/19/2004 9:48 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by John Earp
Scripture clearly reveals that it was God's will that Jesus should die--but this is not evil, in that it was for the highest good of all (benevolence), and was FREELY chosen by Christ. It is not evil if someone takes a bullet for someone else whom they highly esteem. It is the ultimate expression of LOVE, as Christ said, "Greater love has no man that this, than to lay down his life for his friends."
It's not evil to die to self and to serve God and others, to take the bullet for a friend or to die on the cross, it’s called Sacrificial Love. The hard part is the discernment; so much evil has been done through out history in the claim of the good for others, some kind of twisted service for the better. | | Back to Top | | |
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Truth Aficionado
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| Posted 4/19/2004 11:31 AM (GMT -6) | | quote:
"The only evil God cannot "properly" prevent is evil arising from the willing of a free agent, for preventing this would result in a loss of the greater good of having freedom." - Gregory Boyd | | Back to Top | | |
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John Earp
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| Posted 4/19/2004 12:05 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by borg
Would you agree however that the means by which Christ was crucified; sinful people, doing things agaisnt the moral will of God; needed to exist in order for Christ to be crucified? In other words is it necesary that evil coexisted with the greatest good; the death and resurrection of Jesus?
all my other questions posted above still apply to this post as well. Thanks for helping me think through this stuff.
blessings,
Borg
As a result of the Fall of Satan and the Fall of Adam, evil was a given in the situation when Christ was revealed. I think it is obvious that had there never been sin, there would never have been a need for redemption. I don't see this as a yin & yang sort of thing at all (as in "evil must coexist with good"), but rather, the mission of Christ is the perfect example of the Scriptural injunction, "render not evil for evil, but OVERCOME evil with good."
"The Discovery of new truth will modify old views and opinions, and there is perhaps no end to this process with finite minds in any world." Charles G. Finney, Systematic Theology.
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