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DLW
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Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457
  		   Posted 7/2/2004 6:57 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/01/national/01MENT.html

Hardly a surprise given the joys of urban warfare and the extended time period we have been and will be there, with insufficient troop support.

dlw

Niebuhr thought that sustained moral energy in politics depended on religion's power to mobilize reason along with self-transcending love. The prophetic tradition, meanwhile, gave Jews and Christians some protection against the temptation to identify their social causes with God's will. Lincoln's second inaugural address expressed the prophetic insight, "The almighty has His own purposes."

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John Earp
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  		   Posted 7/2/2004 7:34 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
quote:
Originally posted by DLW

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/01/national/01MENT.html

Hardly a surprise given the joys of urban warfare and the extended time period we have been and will be there, with insufficient troop support.

dlw

Soldiers have been coming home with "shell shock" virtually as long as there have been wars. (I do hope we wrap things up as soon as feasible over there).


"The Discovery of new truth will modify old views and opinions, and there is perhaps no end to this process with finite minds in any world." Charles G. Finney, Systematic Theology.

revivaltheology.net

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DLW
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  		   Posted 7/2/2004 7:41 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I'm not optimistic about us wrapping things up soon and getting more int'l support, particularly if Dubya is reelected.

I wouldn't be surprised if the draft is enacted after the election.

dlw

Niebuhr thought that sustained moral energy in politics depended on religion's power to mobilize reason along with self-transcending love. The prophetic tradition, meanwhile, gave Jews and Christians some protection against the temptation to identify their social causes with God's will. Lincoln's second inaugural address expressed the prophetic insight, "The almighty has His own purposes."

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feelinahole
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  		   Posted 7/2/2004 6:29 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
The draft coming back. That would be so cool...
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Sahid
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Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 2013
  		   Posted 7/2/2004 6:39 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
Right, the draft will come back. Sure. Not only is that very unlikely, it would be very immoral. It's also counterproductive. We need solders there who have chosen the armed forces voluntarily. What kind of message would a draft send? "Be a democracy! You get cool rights! Like the right to compelled military service!" Or maybe, "No I don't want to help get your water running, my government is making me."

Watch me fly. Freedom like wings and I will use them. Freedom like wings and I will spread them wide. - Stavesacre

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DLW
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  		   Posted 7/3/2004 6:35 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
quote:
Originally posted by Sahid

Right, the draft will come back. Sure. Not only is that very unlikely, it would be very immoral. It's also counterproductive. We need solders there who have chosen the armed forces voluntarily. What kind of message would a draft send? "Be a democracy! You get cool rights! Like the right to compelled military service!" Or maybe, "No I don't want to help get your water running, my government is making me."


It may not be a matter of choice if we are unable to get int'l assistance and maintain our commitments to seeing through what we started in Iraq.

If you break it, you own it.

dlw

ps,
Here is a NYTIMES link that discusses the idea.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/07/03/politics/03SOLD.html

quote:
talk of reinstating the military draft persists around the country, driven by the Internet, high-profile moves by the military to shore up its forces and fears that all those solid reassurances about no need for conscription could quickly melt away if world events took a turn for the worse.
.
.
.
"I think what is behind the current public discussion is the sense the Defense Department is using coercion to maintain the service of those who might otherwise get out," said James Burk, a sociology professor at Texas A&M University who studies the intersection of military and public policy issues. "That kind of coercion has a resonance of what the draft is all about."


It seems the expert-advice and the smart-money is on their not being a draft in the near-future. It'd take quite a while for joe-schmoes to get anywhere prepared for combat in the middle-east, anyways.

dlw

Niebuhr thought that sustained moral energy in politics depended on religion's power to mobilize reason along with self-transcending love. The prophetic tradition, meanwhile, gave Jews and Christians some protection against the temptation to identify their social causes with God's will. Lincoln's second inaugural address expressed the prophetic insight, "The almighty has His own purposes."

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feelinahole
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Total Posts : 754
  		   Posted 7/3/2004 6:13 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
What kind of message would it send? Maybe that people whose freedom is protected by the military should serve in the military. Sometimes we have to do things we don't particularly like. Its called courage and integrity.
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DLW
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Total Posts : 2457
  		   Posted 7/4/2004 10:06 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
quote:
Originally posted by feelinahole

What kind of message would it send? Maybe that people whose freedom is protected by the military should serve in the military. Sometimes we have to do things we don't particularly like. Its called courage and integrity.


Sometimes, pursuing immediate regime-change in Iraq is non-essential to the security of the US, since the evidence was only solid wrt Iraq continuing to pursue WMD-related capabilities rather than still having significant stock-piles of WMDs.

And its not like we didn't have other options for dealing with Saddam's regime, like turning the heat/int'l scrutiny on the Oil-for-food/medicine program that would have been the only way they could have been getting the money to still pursue WMDs.

dlw

Niebuhr thought that sustained moral energy in politics depended on religion's power to mobilize reason along with self-transcending love. The prophetic tradition, meanwhile, gave Jews and Christians some protection against the temptation to identify their social causes with God's will. Lincoln's second inaugural address expressed the prophetic insight, "The almighty has His own purposes."

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Sahid
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Total Posts : 2013
  		   Posted 7/4/2004 12:17 PM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
quote:
Originally posted by feelinahole

What kind of message would it send? Maybe that people whose freedom is protected by the military should serve in the military. Sometimes we have to do things we don't particularly like. Its called courage and integrity.
It's time for individuals to stop worrying about morality. It just to difficult for a single person. We should have a government to make us do the right thing. Then we would all be truly good. Then we would truly have courage and integrity.

Watch me fly. Freedom like wings and I will use them. Freedom like wings and I will spread them wide. - Stavesacre

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Bobber
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Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 199
  		   Posted 7/12/2004 3:28 AM (GMT -6)    Quote This PostAlert An Admin About This Post.
I really kind of feel sorry for the US troops in Iraq...the things they have gone through....its been a real struggle for sure wondering how in the world the US got into that mess over there....many blame the politicians...it's all Bush's fault....I would say none can blame the politicians, meaning just them alone....I think a nation is blessed or not blessed of God in relation to how the spirit of the nation is going. As a general rule is a nation seeking to adhere to Gods principals when it comes to all things of life...or for the most part are they obstinate towards God....while there is righteous in every country is the general rule is liberalism is the order of the day....well don't pin blame on politicians...if God is blessing a nation leaders can maybe make the most dumpest decisions but somehow someway they'll come out smelling like a rose....like the idea of a cat will ususally always land on its feet.....if a nation is not blessed of God well....there will be struggles....so don't look to one man a president and claim he's the one who is at fault....I would say the whole spirit of the nation is at fault...
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