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a_theist
"Thy will be done."
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 286
| Posted 12/17/2002 5:58 AM (GMT -6) |   | ..it? I recently posted some girls questions from another board about God's omnipotence and omniscience, on the miscellaneous topics. Doc answered her questions, but when i posted them over there she had objections to all of his answers--yeah...I know...DOC!--This is one that stuck out the most to me, because it seems to imply a contradiction:
Girl:Evil. God created everything. If evil exist then god created evil. God is in constant conflict with evil, he hates it but cannot destroy it therefore god is neither ALMIGHTY nor PERFECT.
Doc:If he gives freedom, this requires TOLERATING their evil choices (for revoking the choice is to deny that they are free). So God has to war against evil agents with wisdom, not sheer omnipotence. But this is no detraction to his omnipotence, since HE is the one who made them free in the first place.
Girl:Make up your mind. Is god “tolerating” evil, or at “war against evil”? Really it doesn’t matter, if God is displeased by evil, and God created evil or even the environment from which evil may form, then God is displeased with his own creation, therefore god cannot be PERFECT…but REALLY, even this doesn’t matter because we keep coming back to the same problem: Free will nullifies omnipotence and omniscience, it makes no difference at all that “God gave free will”. If free will exists then gods’ omnipotence and omniscience cannot.
I thought about it, and at first glance it does appear to be a contradiction of sorts. Does anyone know how to dissect this better than me?
Blessings,
Paul (formerly faithfullservent)
"The Creator's power (by which I mean the capacity to influence the world) is made manifest paradoxically in the vulnerable defenselessness of crucified man."
-John F. Haught | | Back to Top | | |
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GregBoyd
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818
| Posted 12/19/2002 10:46 AM (GMT -6) | |
Girl:Make up your mind. Is god “tolerating” evil, or at “war against evil”?
Doc: He wars against it because he can't just annihilate it immediately, otherwise he never gave freedom to choose it in the first place.
Girl: if God is displeased by evil, and God created evil or even the environment from which evil may form, then God is displeased with his own creation, therefore god cannot be PERFECT…
Doc: What? God is displeased with his creation insofar as free agents have chosen against him, and he is displeased precisely because he is perfect. A God who was totally cool with (say) our self-chosen violence would not be perfect.
Girl: Free will nullifies omnipotence and omniscience, it makes no difference at all that “God gave free will”. If free will exists then gods’ omnipotence and omniscience cannot.
Doc: One might have thought that a God who couldn't make free agents would lack omnipotence. What omniscience has to do with this isn't clear. If God is omniscient he knows reality exactly as it is, so he knows free agents as free. What's the problem?
I suspect that "Girl" is presupposing that
a) omnipotence means doing everything unilaterally, and
b) omniscience means knowing all that shall take place.
"Girl" needs to give reasons for these assumptions. As they stand, they seem perfectly arbitrary.
Doc
"In Christ...the ONLY THING that matters is faith energized by love." Galatians 5:6 | | Back to Top | | |
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a_theist
"Thy will be done."
Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 286
| Posted 12/19/2002 11:12 AM (GMT -6) | | I knew there was an answer! Thanks, Doc!
Blessings,
Paul
"The Creator's power (by which I mean the capacity to influence the world) is made manifest paradoxically in the vulnerable defenselessness of crucified man."
-John F. Haught | | Back to Top | | |
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