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| Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Let’s solve the problem of evil > Broadened Omnibenevolence, Providence, and Evil | Forum Quick Jump
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Mephi2K
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 713
| Posted 2/28/2002 3:03 AM (GMT -6) |   | My mind's running a mile a minute here. NO SLEEP. Take this in continuation from my first post on THIS PAGE
If we accept the ramifications of broadened omnibenevolence...including that on divine providence...what type of schema is warranted in interpreting events? It seems to me that Doc's primary take is...
For any instance of seemingly needless evil or suffering, assume Satan's work or human gratuitous evil...unless given very good reason to believe that God is using (or more importantly WILLFULLY) involved.
For this take, he cites how Jesus always referred to sickness, possession, etc as evidence of Satan's kingdom...against which God was opposing by way of Jesus. I can see this somewhat. But here's what I want to know. The fact of the matter is that we know, biblically (and in our own lives) that EVEN IF God was ultimately behind something, he MAY NOT let us know. Using Doc's criteria seems to be playing off of a bunch of ignorance in lieu of experience. (namely Jesus's) Basically, it'd have to be some type of miracle of direct speech from God to hold this. What if a smart atheist were to say...
Ok. Let's use that reasoning then...except let's say the following:
For any instance of seemingly needless evil or suffering, assume human gratuitous evil (whether intentional or unintentional)...unless given very good reason to believe that a SATAN or a GOD is (or more importantly WILLFULLY) involved.
Now, don't I have VERY GOOD REASON to interpret many of the things that I experience in life as merely chance, luck, human error, human malice, or something like that. Wouldn't there have to be VERY GOOD REASONS...very conclusive reasons...for me to say that Satan and demons were involved? Would I not have EXPERIENCE on my side to say that it is much more likely that I ASSUME that Satan and God don't really have much impact on my life unless I have some type of "word from God" or burning bush type deal?
Now think about it. Same logic essentially. Couldn't Doc possibly say something like...
"Well, you have to understand that it may well be the case that though no, "good evidence" (according to YOUR criteria of such) or "reasons" exist that PROVE to you that satanic or divine influences are really doing things, they may well be."
to which the skeptic would reply...
Wouldn't the SAME THING apply to your method of interpreting divine providence? If I'm supposed to hold the intellectual possibility open (and the epistemological ramifications as well) that divine and demonic acts are behind "seemingly" human acts..for MANY human acts...shouldn't YOU say the same thing about holding the intellectually possibility open that DIVINE PROVIDENCE can be ultimately behind "seemingly" evil acts??
Hmmm...
How does this work out when we are answering the difficult theological questions, posed by intelligent atheists or agnostics?
Why did God let that man's daughter die?
Couldn't God have done something about that car crash?
Couldn't God have healed that little girl with leukemia like he healed that man's cancer just a week ago?
Do you mean to tell me God could do NOTHING to prevent the Holocaust?
From what I see, Doc's general line is to assert God's inability to do more (given the circumstances of course). I think it would be rare, if ever, that Doc would say that God was specifically using this for a greater good. He WOULD say that now that the evil moment has occured that God is working (and working hard) to bring whatever "good" he can out of it. We live in a state of war and God is working with us to stem the tide of "evil." I'm wondering to myself it this is indeed the best way of doing things. I'm asking this to the people who have somewhat accepted the "broadened omnibenevolence" idea that has been extensively discussed. Could YOU tell someone categorically that God COULDN'T heal that little girl because some OTHER FORCE (either human or demonic) stopped him? Could you say categorically that God had nothing integral to do with the Holocaust, if you were asked?
[Note: Let's assume that the person would not buy the "big picture/greater God's good" thing that we understand. (He would just skip all the nuances and just say "Well, God WANTED it then!") ]
Now, granted, we can, of course, say that if it weren't for Satan and/or us, that evil wouldn't exist at all. But that would do precious little when we are dealing with particular evils. Given the warfare worldview, we could say that, in a given instance of evil, there really WERE circumstances that limited the scope that God could do. And we could also say that the historical events of gross, immense evil (like Sept. 11th) HAD those circumstances. But the smart atheist would quickly counter that even WE could not say that this was DEFINITELY the case, given our presuppositions. It would be a nice scenerio, but it is not a NECESSARY one. They would force us to admit that it is genuinely in the REALM of possibility that MANY of the evils that we see are somehow in God's "will and purpose" or ultimate good (whatever we wish to call it. And they would be right to do so.
In short, people, how would we truly get these people to understand the FULL implications of God's will and purposes being LARGER than just keeping us healthy, helping us grow (in all areas), and making us happy...WITHOUT making God seem highly arbitrary? Worse yet, how would we get the CHRISTIAN COMMUNITY to accept these implications as well?
Thoughts?
Love God. Love People. Love Truth. Dedicate your all to that which you love.
Edited by - mephi2k on 02/28/2002 08:28:35 AM | | Back to Top | | |
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