Open Theism Discussion Board

Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Let’s solve the problem of evil > When Human life begins: in reality and legally

Forum Quick Jump

291 posts in this thread.
Viewing Page :

[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> | Show Newest Post First ]

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 6/30/2004 11:23 AM (GMT -6)

What is AGH?

I agree that damage to the brain can indirectly harm the heart, but that was not the point.

The point was dealing with the validity of my assertion that there is no trace of brain activity until after a month of gestation, setting out my minimal point where the human zygote/embryo may be considered a human being.

dlw

Niebuhr thought that sustained moral energy in politics depended on religion's power to mobilize reason along with self-transcending love. The prophetic tradition, meanwhile, gave Jews and Christians some protection against the temptation to identify their social causes with God's will. Lincoln's second inaugural address expressed the prophetic insight, "The almighty has His own purposes."

Truth Aficionado
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544

Posted 6/30/2004 5:44 PM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by DLW
[The point was dealing with the validity of my assertion that there is no trace of brain activity until after a month of gestation, setting out my minimal point where the human zygote/embryo may be considered a human being.

dlw

Hello Dave,
When does life begin? I have no firm stance one way or the other. I just thought you might find some of this interesting, but maybe not if you have already drawn a conclusion.

Do I sense a bias? Fist you state the following in regards to when life begins:

quote:
Originally posted by DLW
The earliest point I can accept is after one month when the fetus starts to show some brain activity and is safely implanted on the womb.

Then you state the following in regards to when life ends:

quote:
Originally posted by DLW
As I understood it, the problems were more likely with how we fallibly measured brain-activity.

So how is it we can’t count on our fallibly means to measure fully developed brains. But we can accurately measure a 500 hour old human zygote/embryo/fetus/baby with the same or similar fallible technology?

Just wondering,

Mark

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 7/1/2004 6:11 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by sparknheart

quote:
Originally posted by DLW
[The point was dealing with the validity of my assertion that there is no trace of brain activity until after a month of gestation, setting out my minimal point where the human zygote/embryo may be considered a human being.

dlw

Hello Dave,
When does life begin? I have no firm stance one way or the other. I just thought you might find some of this interesting, but maybe not if you have already drawn a conclusion.

I believe we should conservatiely treat it as beginning at 48 - 51 days after conception. See picture of the embryo taken at that point at the following link...
http://anatomy.med.unsw.edu.au/cbl/embryo/wwwhuman/Stages/CStages.htm

quote:
Do I sense a bias? Fist you state the following in regards to when life begins:
quote:
Originally posted by DLW
The earliest point I can accept is after one month when the fetus starts to show some brain activity and is safely implanted on the womb.

Then you state the following in regards to when life ends:
quote:
Originally posted by DLW
As I understood it, the problems were more likely with how we fallibly measured brain-activity.

So how is it we can’t count on our fallibly means to measure fully developed brains. But we can accurately measure a 500 hour old human zygote/embryo/fetus/baby with the same or similar fallible technology?

Um, it isn't the same technology and it's quite a different thing to measure the onset of brain-activity than to measure whether an adult's brain activity is completely gone.

dlw

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 7/1/2004 6:22 AM (GMT -6)

Does Life EVER exist by itself, on its own?

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 7/1/2004 7:31 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by PotOnWheel

Does Life EVER exist by itself, on its own?

Only in forests where branches fall and no one is around to hear if it makes a noise.

dlw

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 7/1/2004 7:43 AM (GMT -6)

PotOnWheel Does Life EVER exist by itself, on its own?

dlw: Only in forests where branches fall and no one is around to hear if it makes a noise.

THAT would seem to identify you as someone who believes that matter created itself. An atheist.

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 7/1/2004 7:57 AM (GMT -6)

no, that would identify me as someone who makes jokes when asked very unclear questions.

dlw

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 7/1/2004 8:00 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by PotOnWheel

Does Life EVER exist by itself, on its own?

OF ITS OWN DETERMINATION,

AND BY ITS OWN POWER

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 7/1/2004 8:05 AM (GMT -6)

Obfuscation.

dlw

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 7/1/2004 8:09 AM (GMT -6)

Duck ducking........

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 7/1/2004 8:17 AM (GMT -6)

How does one duck a question that is expressed in undefined terms unlike any other question about abortion they've ever seen before?

Put it in normal english, please, Pow.

dlw

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 7/1/2004 9:53 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by PotOnWheel

quote:
Originally posted by PotOnWheel

Does Life EVER exist by itself, on its own?

OF ITS OWN DETERMINATION,

AND BY ITS OWN POWER

Did you create yourself? Do you hold your own atoms together? Do you keep those atoms existing?

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 7/1/2004 10:26 AM (GMT -6)

no, no, no.

Now, how does this relate to when human life begins:in reality and legally?

dlw

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 7/1/2004 11:02 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by DLW

no, no, no.

Now, how does this relate to when human life begins:in reality and legally?

dlw

If you say "no" to all those questions, then what qualifies YOU to answer the other?

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 7/1/2004 12:21 PM (GMT -6)

Sometimes DLW has been able to keep separate the two issues of when IN REALITYA and when LEGALLY human life exists.

Sometimes that is difficult for him.

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 7/1/2004 3:00 PM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by PotOnWheel

quote:
Originally posted by DLW

no, no, no.

Now, how does this relate to when human life begins:in reality and legally?

dlw

If you say "no" to all those questions, then what qualifies YOU to answer the other?

I have the imago-dei!

[Austin Power Voice]Yeeaah Baby![/Austin Power Voice]

dlw

Truth Aficionado
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544

Posted 7/1/2004 5:34 PM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by DLW
I have the imago-dei!
[Austin Power Voice]Yeeaah Baby![/Austin Power Voice]

dlw

Just when exactly did you get your imago-Dai? Did you get it after your conscience or before? Scientists

claim that our conscience continues on even after our BRAIN is dead Knife

! If this is true in death, is it plausible that a zygote/embryo/fetus/baby’s conscience (SOUL) could exist before any BRAIN activity is detected?

Hmmmm,

Mark

Sahid
Megistered Rember

Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 2013

Posted 7/1/2004 10:17 PM (GMT -6)

quote:
If this is true in death, is it possible that a zygote/embryo/fetus/baby’s conscience (SOUL) could exist before any BRAIN activity is detected?

I think everyone agrees that it is possible. It's also possible that you are hallucinating this post. It's possible that I'm not even writing this.

Watch me fly. Freedom like wings and I will use them. Freedom like wings and I will spread them wide. - Stavesacre

Truth Aficionado
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544

Posted 7/2/2004 2:44 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by Sahid

quote:
If this is true in death, is it possible that a zygote/embryo/fetus/baby’s conscience (SOUL) could exist before any BRAIN activity is detected?
I think everyone agrees that it is possible. It's also possible that you are hallucinating this post. It's possible that I'm not even writing this.

How about plausible?

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 7/2/2004 3:17 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by DLW

I have the imago-dei!

Everyone does, by created nature.

But what matters is whether in our thoughts and actions we reflect the "likes."

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 7/2/2004 3:20 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by Sahid

quote:
If this is true in death, is it possible that a zygote/embryo/fetus/baby’s conscience (SOUL) could exist before any BRAIN activity is detected?
I think everyone agrees that it is possible. It's also possible that you are hallucinating this post. It's possible that I'm not even writing this.

SHADDOW SYNDROMS is an interesting "brain book." I read it while taking a brain class. (Held half a brain in my hands.) The authors point out that the organic brain itself does not encompass "all that is there." The soul is not just organic.

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 7/2/2004 4:12 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by sparknheart

quote:
Originally posted by DLW
I have the imago-dei!
[Austin Power Voice]Yeeaah Baby![/Austin Power Voice]

dlw

Just when exactly did you get your imago-Dai? Did you get it after your conscience or before? Scientists claim that our conscience continues on even after our BRAIN is dead! If this is true in death, is it plausible that a zygote/embryo/fetus/baby’s conscience (SOUL) could exist before any BRAIN activity is detected?

Hmmmm,

Mark

And it is possible that I could have been bitten by a radioactive spider and gained the ability to stick to walls and swing from building to building. Well, okay, maybe not.

The anecdotes you pull out of thin air(note:I didn't say your but) do not provide compelling evidence, my friend.

dlw

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 7/2/2004 4:25 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by PotOnWheel

quote:
Originally posted by DLW

I have the imago-dei!

Everyone does, by created nature.

But what matters is whether in our thoughts and actions we reflect the "likes."

What pray-tell are the "likes"?

And the fact that our brains are not strictly organic doesn't mean that we can't make fallible judgements based on our observations of the organic material.

dlw

Truth Aficionado
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 1544

Posted 7/2/2004 4:27 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by DLW

quote:
Originally posted by sparknheart

quote:
Originally posted by DLW
I have the imago-dei!
[Austin Power Voice]Yeeaah Baby![/Austin Power Voice]

dlw

Just when exactly did you get your imago-Dai? Did you get it after your conscience or before? Scientists claim that our conscience continues on even after our BRAIN is dead! If this is true in death, is it plausible that a zygote/embryo/fetus/baby’s conscience (SOUL) could exist before any BRAIN activity is detected?

Hmmmm,

Mark

And it is possible that I could have been bitten by a radioactive spider and gained the ability to stick to walls and swing from building to building. Well, okay, maybe not.

The anecdotes you pull out of thin air(note:I didn't say your but) do not provide compelling evidence, my friend.

dlw

We are finally starting to get to the core issue Approve

. So, the suspicion was founded, it is true after all, you have been bitten by a radioactive spider. Wink

PotOnWheel
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890

Posted 7/2/2004 4:27 AM (GMT -6)

sparknheart: If this is true in death, is it plausible that a zygote/embryo/fetus/baby’s conscience (SOUL) could exist before any BRAIN activity is detected?

DLW: ...provide compelling evidence, my friend.

PoW: sparkinheart wants to come down on the side of caution, respecting the significance of what is involved. sparkinheart says "plausible" and not proof.

But DLW has an adgenda, and that is inconvient for him. He wants clear-cut land to build on, and demands "evidence" as proof, assuming no need for caution merely because of the nature of the issue.

291 posts in this thread.
Viewing Page :

Forum Information

Currently it is Monday, November 09, 2026 9:01 PM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 97,718 posts in 6,040 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 0 new threads and 0 reply posts. View Active Threads

Need Support? | Forum Help Manual