 |
|  DLW Registered Member
 Date Joined Apr 2003 Total Posts : 2457 | Posted 6/18/2003 10:59 AM (GMT -6) |   | There was an article in Prism E-pistle with the above name and the next issue, which came out today is full of letters to the editor and a response from the original author.
3.THE GRIEF OF BAGHDAD, by Peter Larson. Since the fall of Baghdad two months ago the anti- war movement has fallen strangely silent. Voices that warned of doom and disaster have vanished from the Op-ed pages and political talk shows. Of course, it's hard to protest a war once it's over. Still, I wonder: why is there so little comment from war critics? If the Iraq war was truly immoral, why the silence? Perhaps it was the discovery of the mass graves where many of Saddam Hussein's victims were buried alive. Perhaps it was the television images of children, liberated from prisons where they had languished for years. Perhaps it was the discovery of torture chambers and terrorist camps. Maybe it was the cover photo that appeared in NEWSWEEK magazine of an Iraqi citizen kissing a U.S. Marine. Before we invaded Iraq, there was tremendous debate about whether it was justified or not. But as the war unfolded, opinion gave way to the eloquence of facts. We saw the piles of rotting skeletons, stockpiled in warehouses by Saddam's death squads. We saw hospitals and schools used as ammunition dumps and civilians used as human shields. We saw the wailing of Iraqi women, searching for missing sons and husbands who disappeared during Saddam's reign of terror. In the grief of Baghdad, there are lessons to be learned and not forgotten. In particular, I believe there are five things we can learn from the conflict in Iraq: ONE: THINGS WORSE THAN WAR War is a terrible evil, but there are things worse than war. For a nation to be systematically starved and oppressed is worse than war. For political prisoners to be savagely tortured is worse than war. For a tyrant to commit genocide against his own people - wiping out entire villages - is worse than war. When my father enlisted in the Army during World War II at the age of 17, he was not dreaming of military glory or conquest. Rather, he was convinced that Hitler must be stopped from annihilating the Jewish people. War is evil, but it is not the worst nor the ultimate evil. TWO: THE FAILURE OF POSTMODERNISM In many ways, Iraq was our first postmodern war. Despite the overwhelming evidence of genocide, torture and tyranny in Iraq, many antiwar activists saw the United States as the villain and aggressor. Hence, we heard a college professor at Columbia University calling for "a million Mogadishus," and CNN journalist Peter Arnett claiming that America was suffering defeat even as Marines were on the outskirts of Baghdad. A friend of mine tells the story of attending a yoga class and having her instructor declare that "George Bush is Hitler." It's hard to explain this inverted view of reality unless you understand the impact of postmodernism. Twenty years of postmodernism have brought us very near the point of believing that there is no such thing as good or evil. For the postmodernist, there is no truth or falsehood, only propaganda and competing claims for power. THREE: A THEOLOGICAL CRISIS The war in Iraq reveals a profound crisis in modern theology and the mainline church. Church leaders who opposed the war found themselves sharply at odds with their own congregations. A survey by the Pew Research Center and the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life found that 62% of Catholics and an equal percentage of mainline Protestants supported the war. The Pew survey also showed that 77% of evangelical Christians supported the war. While many clergy claim it is their role to be prophetic and unpopular, the heart of the problem is theological. In the mainline church today we suffer from a utopian and naive theology that does not take seriously the depth of human sin, evil and the fallen nature of human beings. The Protestant Reformers - Luther and Calvin - understood that evil must be restrained and resisted. By contrast, modern theology views the world as a larger version of Mr. Rogers Neighborhood, in which human beings are basically good and reasonable. We need to recover a true biblical theology, which comprehends the radical nature of sin and evil. FOUR: TRUSTING IN COALITIONS In the months leading up to the war, critics claimed we should only invade Iraq with the support and backing of a coalition. In other words, war can only be justified, morally, by a vote of the United Nations. It was strange to hear Christians making this case for coalitions in light of all the biblical warnings against doing this. Repeatedly, God warns his people NOT to trust in coalitions or political alliances, but to put their trust in God alone. In the history of Israel we see the disastrous result of a nation that put its faith in coalitions instead of trusting God. In charting our foreign policy the only relevant question should be: Is this right or wrong? In the words of Davy Crockett, "Make sure you're right, then go ahead." It is not a bad thing to have the support of other nations, but as Christians, we cannot abdicate our moral judgment to a coalition. FIVE: THE BOY WHO CRIED WOLF All of us remember the story of the boy who cried wolf until people no longer paid any attention. We also remember the story of Chicken Little, who warned that the sky was falling. Christians who oppose all war as morally unjustified are running the same risk. In the aftermath of Baghdad, the mainline church has squandered its credibility. In the words of Rabbi Daniel Lapin, "the mainline churches have suffered a blow to their relevancy in America that will take them more than a generation to recover from." Confession is good for the soul. But it is unlikely that we will hear any confession from opponents of the war that perhaps they were wrong. Instead, there is only silence. (Peter Larson is pastor of Lebanon Presbyterian Church in Lebanon, Ohio, and a contributing editor to PRISM Magazine.) (Editor's note: MANY readers responded to Peter Larson's "The Grief of Baghdad" from our last issue. While it is tempting to most of us to read only those things with which we agree, such a practice neither challenges our thinking nor helps us build bridges of communication. Because of that, I make an effort to include views from a wide range of Christians, especially when those views originate from people whom I know to be justice-loving followers of Christ. We all need each other; we need to hear and engage with various views in order to challenge each other and grow. Thus it was a thrill for me personally to receive so many well-reasoned and impassioned responses to Larson's piece. This is exactly the kind of debate we want to see the E-pistle serving! Thanks to all who participated - I hope I've included everyone who took the time to write in. To read Mr. Larson's response to readers' responses, please read through to the end of the first section of letters. - Kristyn Komarnicki) Dear E-pistle, I want to thank you for consistently providing excellent resources and commentary for Christians who are concerned about social justice. The value of this publication was particularly evident around the recent American invasion of Iraq, when you included numerous intelligent and thoughtful articles from diverse viewpoints. Having written this, I would like to offer an alternate perspective to Peter Larson's analysis of the anti-war movement in the June 4th issue of E-pistle. Rev. Larson asserts that anti-war activists have "fallen strangely silent" in the aftermath of the recent U.S. invasion of Iraq. If one relied solely on mainstream American media such as NEWSWEEK, CNN, and MS-NBC, it may indeed appear that opponents of the war have stopped voicing their sentiments. However, I think it would be a mistake to draw this conclusion simply based on lack of representation on "op-ed pages and political talk shows." In fact, in certain communities, such as the one I belong to in the San Francisco Bay Area, the U.S. invasion and occupation have fueled passionate protests against U.S. policies in Iraq and other parts of the world, including U.S. domestic policies that increasingly appear to undermine the welfare of poor communities of color. Just this week, 200 activists demonstrated in front of Bechtel, a corporation with close links to the Bush administration that has been awarded one of the biggest contracts by the U.S. to "rebuild" Iraq. Eighteen were arrested. A week before that, a free, outdoor jazz festival with the theme "Stop U.S. Imperialism" drew thousands of attendees to a local park. In mid-June, a broad coalition of over 20 local community organizations, primarily representing people of color, will hold an anti-war march and rally in Oakland. In fact, around where I live, there have been at least several anti-war activities in various different communities EVERY WEEK. Based on messages proclaimed at these events, it appears that some communities have a broader definition of war than mainstream America and that, from their perspective, the war is not over. Predictably, these events are rarely covered in mainstream American media. San Francisco, of course, does not represent what may be happening nationwide. However, as much as the anti-war movement may represent a minority in the U.S., it represents the sentiments of the global majority and has been far from being silent worldwide. Rev. Larson also suggests that the numerous evidence of the "grief of Baghdad" due to Saddam's despotic rule clearly demonstrates the moral justification of this particular war. Again, if we are serious about forming an intelligent and thoughtful understanding of the current situation, we should not rely solely on mainstream media. While the U.S. media provided a thorough coverage of the brutality of the Saddam Hussein regime, it did a heinous job of reporting the terrible atrocities of the U.S. military campaign on the Iraqis. The media also provided ample coverage of many Iraqi people, particularly the Kurds, welcoming U.S. troops. However, their coverage of the widespread and growing Iraqi resistance to the invasion and occupation continues to be atrocious. During the time of active military combat, many Iraqis refused to leave their homeland to become refugees. Instead, there were numerous reports of stiff resistance by ordinary Iraqi people facing the most terrifying military in world history. Instead of a huge refugee crisis as predicted by international observers, Iraqis and other supporters actually made attempts to travel INTO Iraq to defend it from foreign invaders. Since the war was declared essentially over on May 1, there have been numerous demonstrations demanding the U.S. to leave. Some Iraqis have resorted to armed resistance resulting in almost daily reports of American casualties. In fact, according to recent reports, many Iraqis believe that the U.S. was responsible for the two massacres recently unearthed and not Saddam Hussein. Apparently, the moral justification of the war is far from clear from the Iraqi perspective. And I would argue that theirs is the perspective that matters most. Given "the grief of Baghdad" under Saddam's brutal regime, why do many (perhaps most) Iraqis continue to oppose the U.S., their would-be liberator? Perhaps my Korean background allows me some insight into this question which may be difficult for many Americans to understand. After the liberation of Korea from Japanese occupation in 1945, the southern portion of my country fell under U.S. military occupation. Subsequently, the U.S. instated and supported successive dictatorial regimes that terrorized and repressed my people for some 40 years. The dictators of South Korea imprisoned, tortured, and murdered anyone suspected of opposing the regime. In 1980, the dictator responded to a democratic uprising in the town of Kwangju with violent repression, massacring thousands of civilians. Decades of grassroots resistance marked by tremendous courage and sacrifice by students, trade unionists, and other activists finally resulted in a democratic civilian government in 1987. This was achieved not with the help of any foreign intervention, but despite foreign powers supporting the dictatorial regimes. From the perspective of many Koreans, the U.S. is inextricably associated with the dictators that it supported. Hence, our movement for democracy always had an anti-American flavor. I would guess that many Iraqis are accustomed to holding the U.S. at least partially responsible for the first 12 years of Saddam's oppressive rule which was largely funded by the U.S. It is no surprise to me, then, if many of the Iraqi people do not buy the idea that the U.S. is concerned about liberating them for democracy and freedom. As a Korean, a person of color, and a Christian concerned about social justice, I would also like to present some lessons to be drawn from the recent invasion and occupation of Iraq: One. There may be freedom of the press in the U.S., but for the most part, the media choose to present the same side of the story, particularly in times of war. Those of us wishing to develop well-informed opinions should seek independent and international news sources to supplement U.S. media reports and analyses. Two. The value of self-determination is priceless. For this reason, many Iraqi people resisted the U.S. invasion even if it meant the long-awaited end to a hated dictator. People of the Third World have all too often experienced foreign powers taking away our natural resources along with our right to determine our own fates. Even the widely-accepted American notion that the U.S. has the authority to determine who needs liberation and who doesn't, what is morally justified for us and what isn't, is offensive to many of us. Three. The U.S. government has no moral credibility in many parts of the world, and particularly among Third World communities. I realize this may be difficult for some Americans to swallow, but many of us simply don't believe that the U.S. has any interest in principles of democracy, freedom, human rights, etc. This may be because the America that many people here in the States experience is vastly different than the America that most Third World communities have encountered throughout history. Four. For the American church to be relevant to issues of global justice, Christians need to gain a better understanding of viewpoints among the oppressed. For better or for worse, the U.S. is increasingly viewed as the enemy by many Third World communities. Engaging in meaningful discourse with these communities may require American Christians to let go a little of their American identity and embrace more of their Christian identity. This is bound to be extremely difficult for many Americans, but absolutely essential for anyone desiring to join in solidarity with the poor and the oppressed. - Sam Shin (San Francisco, CA) Dear E-pistle, I'd like to take issue with Peter Larson's piece "The Grief of Baghdad." Larson began his piece saying antiwar voices have grown mute since the war ended, suggesting that such silence is proof that going to war was the right thing to do. Though Larson does point out that it is difficult to express opposition to a war that has already happened, I'd like to add that the war, finished though it is, is indeed getting some bad press. Just today NPR reported on the possibility that the U.S. exaggerated its intelligence that Hussein's regime had biological and chemical weapons to justify the rally to war. Tony Blair is facing a lot of heat back home for the absence of such weapons. TIME magazine reported, "Front-page stories in Britain now routinely question whether Blair lied to make his case, was lied to by the Americans or was the victim of a major intelligence blunder. A parliamentary inquiry is likely." Most would agree that the reputation of the United States abroad is lower than it has been in a long time. My point is that skepticism about the justness of the war is still alive and well. I readily acknowledge and am pleased to receive news that many Iraqis are enjoying their new freedoms. I am relieved to see photos such as the one Larson mentioned of an Iraqi kissing a Marine on the cover of NEWSWEEK, but such images should be seen beside those of the young boy without arms and legs, the man carrying his bleeding daughter from the rubble that bombs left behind, the ransacked museums, and Iraqis hurling rocks at U.S. army vehicles. These are pictures of the cost of war, about which peace advocates warned, and which are also manifestations of the grief of Baghdad. - Chad Allen (Grand Rapids, MI) Dear E-pistle, In "The Grief of Baghdad", Peter Larson makes some good points about the weaknesses of the anti-war movement. As someone who opposed the war, I wondered on more than one occasion if those who claimed to be speaking for me were trying to be stupid on purpose, and the million Mogadhishus comment made me roll my eyes and rant at my TV. That just goes to show that the media is more interested in good television than thoughtful discourse, and people who yell and say outrageous things are more entertaining than those who have a thoughtful opinion that does not fit on a protest poster. Saddam was a cynical and brutal dictator who lived in obscene luxury, who tortured and oppressed his people to remain in power. Anyone who didn't think that he was evil simply wasn't paying attention. I, for one, am not sorry that he is gone. However, I still think that invading Iraq was a bad idea. The problem with most of the public conversation about the war was that it set up a false dichotomy, where our options were war or doing nothing. Both sides of the debate skewed reality to fit their agendas. Although I take issue with the vast majority of Bush's policies, he is not Hitler, but neither was Saddam. When I say that, I am not referring to the state of his soul, but the political, economic and military reality of Iraq. Saddam was paranoid for a reason - Iraq had a crumbling infrastructure, a military with shaky loyalty, and significant portions of the population who had shown rebellious tendencies. Add to that the fact that the surrounding countries would just as soon have Saddam go away, and you have a dictator who knew his grip on his country was a tenuous one. Despite Bush's rhetoric about protecting us from weapons of mass destruction, Saddam posed no threat to us or neighboring countries - not because he didn't have the desire to attack, but because he knew he lacked the military power to attack us and maintain his gig as a dictator looting his country. If anyone has found chemical or biological weapons in Iraq, I have yet to hear about it, and that's not because we haven't been looking. The outcome of the war was a no-brainer from the start, but I have serious doubts about whether we will have brought democracy to Iraq or whether the people of Iraq will find themselves with a repressive Taliban-esque regime in a few years. Chaos and poverty are excellent breeding grounds for extremism, and I think we will see a growing backlash against the American troops in the coming months, because hating Saddam is not the same thing as liking the U.S. Saddam may be gone, but that doesn't mean that daily life is any better for the Iraqis. The mess in Afghanistan is testament to the limits of a third-party military overthrow. Rather than focusing on Saddam's possibly non- existent weapons of mass destruction, we should have focused on Saddam's oppression of his own people and sought out non-military means of a regime change. The human rights violations in Iraq are well- documented and horrifying, and even France would have a hard time justifying them, despite all of the money that country has made from Saddam's regime. We could have sought broad international support for indicting him and his sidekicks as war criminals and frozen the regime's assets. We could have promised massive aid for the reconstruction of the country if his own people would oust him. Change from within Iraq would take longer, but it would also be more likely to produce a stable and democratic government and less likely to feed the perception of the U.S. as an arrogant and imperialistic superpower. This is already too long, but the world is complicated, and we would do a much better job of living in it if our public discourse and foreign policy tried to take that complexity into account. - Christy Lambertson (Los Angeles, CA) Dear E-pistle, The only positive thing I can say about Peter Larson's article is that it is good to see PRISM doesn't have a "party line". This is by far the weakest piece of theological reflection I have ever seen coming out of PRISM. Although it was helpfully enlightening to me as a snapshot from within American evangelicalism - mostly American, not very evangelical in a true sense of the word - I'm baffled why a magazine which "encourages Christians to live out the whole of the gospel with the whole of their lives" would think this article could contribute to those aims. Let's see, as a follower of Christ I can justify an act of violent aggression against my neighbor when: my aggression is in degree less than his; I disagree with my critics' value system so can just ignore or vilify them; robust theology has become a democratic process; I find no wisdom in the counsel of others; and I take it as healthy to ignore a persistent voice of caution. This may accord with the spirit of Davy Crockett (he certainly died defending his values!), but with the Spirit of Christ, never. I hope you can find and present us, in the near future, with a more thoughtful essay on Christians and War. Rev. Howie Adan (Christ Church Amsterdam, Netherlands) Dear E-pistle, Not all peacemakers have maintained silence after the end of the Iraq war, as Peter Larson contends. SOJOURNERS Magazine and its community, where I'm an intern, still openly maintains that while perhaps not the "worst evil" (since when do Christians measure evil on a sliding scale, anyway?), war is certainly never the best answer. Read Jim Wallis' post-war comments at http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm? ction=sojomail.display&issue=042403#3. Many continue to stand for peace and justice, and many in the body of Christ continue to speak out against aggressive acts of war - whether they are perpetrated against the people of Iraq or on the working poor of our own nation. - Kate Bowman (Washington, D.C.) Dear E-pistle, I find it odd that Peter Larson expects us who opposed the war in Iraq - or even the pastors of mainline denominations - to make a confession that we were wrong. Why should we apologize for what Jesus said? "He who lives by the sword will die by the sword." "Love your enemies... do good to those who hate you." I have compiled some 22 pages of texts that the New Testament clearly shows that the approach of using violence against those who do evil is completely opposed to Jesus' method of dealing with evil. Jesus' approach is to allow the authoritative evil to do its evil and allow God to destroy it. Perhaps (even probably) Iraq and Afghanistan's regimes were destroyed by the empire of the United States because God determined that they were oppressing the poor. That is well and good. But that does not mean that the U.S. won't receive judgment as well. This is the lesson of Habakkuk. Habakkuk wanted to have Judah judged for their evil. And so God told him that he would raise up Babylon to destroy Judah. Habakkuk's response was, "Lord, but they are so much more evil than we are! You aren't really supporting them, are you?" And the Lord replied, "I see their evil too and you need to believe that they will be punished as well, even as you see them in their glory. Every nation that oppressed the poor will be destroyed - whether now or later." We can learn the same lesson. There has never been any question that Sadaam's regime in Iraq was evil and oppressed the innocent. That regime was rightly judged. However, in punishing evil, evil was done. The innocent were killed in both Iraq and Afghanistan - and in every war the U.S. was ever involved in. And everyone who was involved in oppressing the poor - whether done in the name of "freedom" or not - will be judged unless they repent. I am not here to condemn President Bush or the soldiers who were involved in the war. However, I have been praying that they would repent, and they would confess the evil they have done so that healing in their lives may begin. - Steve Kimes (Pastor of Anawim Christian Community, Portland, OR) Dear E-pistle, Mr. Larson's criticism of the supposed silence of those who opposed the illegal and imperialist invasion of Iraq was saddening. Mr. Larson argues that "war is evil, but it is not the worst nor the ultimate evil." These words bespeak a "postmodern" moral relativism elsewhere decried in his article justifying the war in Iraq. Our Lord and Savior offered no such relativist comfort to us in his unequivocal denunciation of all violence. The evils perpetrated by Saddam Hussein in no way justify the American government's systematized murder and looting of yet more innocent Iraqi people. Our prophetic clergy who openly and consistently took a courageous moral stand against violence may not be relevant to the world, but then that is not their vocation. As Christians we are to pray unceasingly for the coming Kingdom, which will always make us gloriously irrelevant to the worldly-minded. I am not aware of the silence that Mr. Larson mocks; to the contrary, the prophetic voices for peace continue in many venues and pulpits, if not on the Fox News Channel, but they were never heard there in the first place. To question the peacemakers' theological understanding of the real and pervasive presence of evil in the world is to question the forgiveness and redemption offered us in the death of our Lord who foolishly forgave those who executed him. This is not Mr. Rogers; this is our salvation. - Laura H. Norton (Bremerton, WA) Dear E-pistle, I heartily agree with Peter Larson concerning the war in Iraq and its justification. I would only add the words of Michael Kelly, a correspondent from the ATLANTIC MONTHLY, who died in Gulf War II: "I covered the [first] Gulf War as a reporter, and it was this experience, later compounded by what I saw reporting in Bosnia, that convinced me of the moral imperative, sometimes, for war. In liberated Kuwait City, one vast crime scene, I toured the morgue one day and inspected torture and murder victims left behind by the departing Iraqis . . . After that, I could never again stand the arguments of those who sat in the luxury of safety - 'advocating nonresistance behind the guns of the American fleet' - as George Orwell wrote of World War II pacifists - and held that the moral course was, in crimes against humanity as in crimes on the street corner: Better not to get involved, dear." (Quoted in the ATLANTIC MONTHLY, June 2003, p. 10) - Ken Koonce (Dallas, TX) Dear E-pistle, As an evangelical and Presbyterian Christian I am very concerned with the position taken by Peter Larson. As someone who was opposed to war, but who felt that it may be the only option in the light of the situation and who readily admits not to have all the answers on this issue - and indeed that my position may well be proven to be wrong in the light of history! - I am concerned at the 'I told you so' attitude of Rev Larson's article. For me, the jury is still out as to whether the war was wise or otherwise, and will be for years to come. Defeating the Iraqi military has proven relatively straightforward; few would have doubted otherwise. However, winning the battle for the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people and the rest of the Middle East and Arab world is a totally different story. There is no doubt that the justification for war as we have heard it from our political leaders was on a very shaky foundation and certainly we were only given a distorted view of the facts. Further, I am very concerned that the war will do much to harm our long-term relationship with our Muslim neighbors and make life more difficult for indigenous Christians in Iraq and across the Middle East. Questions are also left unanswered about how we can justify the cost of this war when we are not prepared to address the causes of war and oppression: issues like our involvement in supplying arms to dictatorships throughout the developing world and our reluctance to deal with the root causes of poverty which essentially our greedy and protectionist economic policies. I'm sorry, but if this is where evangelical Christianity is coming from, I'm very disappointed. - Richard Kerr (Belfast, Northern Ireland) Dear E-pistle, "The Grief of Baghdad" by Peter Larson was quite disappointing. I regret I forwarded the E-pistle to my parishioners and colleagues to waste time reading this theological oversimplifications and unexamined assumptions. Don't undo your good work. - Samir Selmanovic (samir@crosswalkministries.com) Dear E-pistle, Peter Larson's article made me see red. It is the type of U.S. patriotic triumphalism that has led us down the path of imperialism and brutal repression around the world. Here are a few questions: > Since the U.S. helped install Hussein in power, supplied him with the materials to build his arsenal of weapons of mass destruction during the Iran-Iraq War, and protected him diplomatically from any consequences for the use of weapons of mass destruction during the same period, shouldn't we be held, at least in some part, morally liable for what Hussein did? All of the claims that I made have been documented in the mainstream press, including a photo of Donald Rumsfeld shaking hands with Hussein during a meeting in Baghdad shortly after Hussein gassed the Kurds in Halabja. > Is the U.S. at all morally liable for its support of other brutal dictators? Our support for brutal dictators in Iran (the Shah that we installed and that the Iranian people drove out in 1979), Indonesia (Suharto who murdered hundreds of thousands after seizing power with U.S. complicity and murdered hundreds of thousands more while invading East Timor with U.S. complicity), Guatemala (various regimes who received overt or covert U.S. support during a genocidal assault on their Mayan population, a fact documented in the U.N. report after the peace accords), El Salvador, Nicaragua, and on and on. You will have to forgive me if I find our claim to be the liberator of Iraq out of our deep humanitarian concern more than a little questionable. >Is the Bush administration morally liable for its massive use of lies and deceit in its drive for war? It is now well documented that there was no link between Iraq and al-Qaeda. The administration pushed the intelligence agencies to cook the intelligence to sell such a link as part of the propaganda campaign for the war. I would think that the total absence of weapons of mass destruction in a country we have controlled for more than two months, as well as the ease with which the U.S. military crushed the Iraqi military, would put the lie to all the claims of the imminent threat that justified "pre-emptive war." > If we are the liberators then why are we staying in control rather than moving to set up structures to allow the Iraqis to make their own choices? Will they be able to establish an Islamist government aligned with Iran if that is what the majority wants? Will they be able to maintain state control over Iraqi oil reserves if that is what the majority wants? Will they be able to opt out of the U.S. dominated global economic system if that is what the majority wants? It looks to me more like the Iraqis have about as much say in their affairs now as they did under Hussein. Oh, by the way, Hussein's government arranged to effectively feed the Iraqi people during the sanctions. The U.S. imposed sanctions (we effectively forced the U.N. to continue the sanctions) were what brought misery and starvation to the Iraqi people. We were the ones who said, in Madeline Albright's words, that the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children "was worth it." The statements about the Food Program are documented by the U.N. administrators. So excuse me, I opposed the war and I still feel that I was morally justified. The Iraqi people are rid of Hussein who was undeniably a brutal thug. They are better off rid of him. But I still believe that one fundamental principle of morality is that good ends do not justify evil means. We will see what the fruits of our actions are. After all, "by their fruits you will know them." - John Hahn-Francini Dear E-pistle, I must reply to the piece on the "silence after the war." I too mourn the silence after the war from peace activists. However, I don't think it can be said that we were simply wrong. I read the Scriptures that we repay evil with good...not evil with evil. Peace-making is not war-making. If we are ever to have a civil, humane world, we human beings must learn to deal with evil in another way than by seeking to stamp it out with war. One last thought: Is it not naive and unrealistic to assume that we are good and they are evil to such an extent as to justify any means? Is it not true that as Christians we believe that the ends do not justify the means, that utopia cannot be attained by evil means? I truly think that those who perpetrated this war are lacking in a "radical understanding of sin and evil." - Larry Coleman Dear E-pistle, Thank you, Peter Larson, for your 5 lessons learned from "The Grief of Baghdad." Perhaps the now silent protesters will digest your words rather than their feet. Well done. - Carolyn Presley Dear E-pistle, On the whole, in the past I have found your articles very worthwhile. However, since I have read "The Grief of Baghdad" by Peter Larson in the latest issue, I am thoroughly disgusted that you included such an ill-conceived piece in the PRISM E-pistle. Re: "postmodernism." Surely moral relativism and epistomological solipsism have been around for far longer than postmodernism. The denial of the reality of good and evil, of objective truth and falsehood - which Christianity must always oppose - has been around for centuries. Most people who have seriously studied postmodernism recognize that it is ambiguous and complex, to say the least! There are in fact many potential points of contact between Christianity and postmodernism. I am not trying to defend postmodernism, either - merely to say that a Christian response to postmodernism needs to be more nuanced than Peter Larson's simplistic and facile statements. Re: "trusting in coalitions." In the first section Larson refers to World War II, which was obviously not a war that was fought by the U.S. alone (remember "the Allies"??). Moreover, the recent invasion of Iraq was consistently portrayed by the U.S. administration as a "coalition" effort (conducted along with England and supported by Spain, Poland, etc). Yet Larson writes: "Repeatedly, God warns his people NOT to trust in coalitions or political alliances, but to put their trust in God alone. In the history of Israel we see the disastrous result of a nation that put its faith in coalitions instead of trusting God." The theological and hermeneutical naivete evident in these statements is astonishing, given the level of thought that I have come to expect from the E-pistle. Does Larson really think that all those who advocated acting against Iraq in concert with the United Nations failed to trust in God, and only those who were willing to follow the demands of the U.S. administration to attack Iraq apart from U.N. approval trusted in God? Is trusting in God equivalent to blindly trusting the U.S. administration? Is trusting in God equivalent to following the new American imperialist agenda? Such black and white, "us" vs. "them" thinking is not only incredibly superficial but also dangerous and deceptive; it also maligns many sincere and thoughtful Christians who disagreed with the U.S. administration's agenda precisely because we trusted in God! It is not surprising that Larson expresses criticism of the mainline churches' opposition to the Iraq invasion. Nevertheless, when he goes on to say: "In charting our foreign policy the only relevant question should be: Is this right or wrong? In the words of Davy Crockett, 'Make sure you're right, then go ahead.' It is not a bad thing to have the support of other nations, but as Christians, we cannot abdicate our moral judgment to a coalition." Larson here in fact treads on the very ground that was the basis for the churches' opposition to the invasion. They took their position on the basis of a clearly MORAL evaluation of the situation (and I believe that their position was far more morally defensible than the Southern Baptists' fawning support for Bush's relentless determination to invade Iraq). Larson is simply wrong to implicitly deny that only those who supported the invasion were exercising moral judgment. Moreover, I completely fail to understand how under "Point 3, A Theological Crisis," Larson can make his point about the discrepancy between the church leaders and the views of "people in the pew" about the invasion of Iraq and then proceed from that to say: "In the mainline church today we suffer from a utopian and naive theology that does not take seriously the depth of human sin, evil and the fallen nature of human beings. The Protestant Reformers - Luther and Calvin - understood that evil must be restrained and resisted. By contrast, modern theology views the world as a larger version of Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood, in which human beings are basically good and reasonable. We need to recover a true biblical theology, which comprehends the radical nature of sin and evil." I completely fail to see how this relates to his earlier point about the discrepancy between church leaders and laity in their views of the invasion of Iraq. Moreover, accusing the mainline churches of playing down the seriousness of human sin and evil is an old and tired refrain; it was certainly valid as a critique of 19th-century liberalism, and no doubt there are some in the mainline churches today who hold such naive views of human nature. But to describe the theology of the mainline churches today as a whole in such terms is a staggering over- generalization, indeed it is really a terrible caricature of the faith of many faithful and orthodox Christians (both clergy and laity) within the mainline churches. - Rev. Dr. Tim Hegedus (Assistant Professor of New Testament Theology at Waterloo Lutheran Seminary, Wilfrid Laurier University, Waterloo, Ontario, Canada) Dear E-pistle, Peter Larson's article, "The Grief of Baghdad," was truthfully titled. Baghdad, along with the entire country of Iraq, has only known grief since Saddam came to power. However, I would like to challenge the content of the article. The (postmodern) truth about this war is that sometimes U.S. foreign policy, such as supporting an evil dictator named Saddam, is worse than war because it only served to sustain an evil dictator and create war. I only need to reference the Iraq-Iran war in which the U.S. supported Saddam even with the full knowledge that he was developing and using WMD. The moral high ground claimed by the Bush Administration collapses when the history between the U.S. and Iraq is uncovered. By uncovering the U.S. relations with Iraq, the theological crisis that should emerge within the Christian church is one of identity. Who will we finally place our trust in and give our service to - God or the State? Of course, I think a God who chose to die on a cross, in contrast to rallying the oppressed Jewish masses to rebel against the Roman government, would probably not want us today supporting the violence of a state who attacks the very ruler they once supported and armed. Indeed, the grief of Baghdad should especially extend to Christians who live within the State claiming to be liberators. - William Holley Jr. (Pueblo, CO) Dear E-pistle, Peter Larson wrote: "War is a terrible evil, but there are things worse than war. For a nation to be systematically starved and oppressed is worse than war." Of course, it was the U.S. (with the U.K.'s support) that systematically starved and oppressed Iraq for 12 years. It was indeed "worse than war" - with the ironic result that many seemed to be arguing that our going to war against Iraq would be a good way to put an end to the brutality of our sanctions! He wrote: "For a tyrant to commit genocide against his own people - wiping out entire villages - is worse than war." Hardly: the total death toll of this year's Iraqi war far exceeded the size of what most would consider a "village" - and death is only the most immediate effect of war! This is especially true when war is waged with weapons of long-term environmental consequences. He wrote: "In many ways, Iraq was our first postmodern war. Despite the overwhelming evidence of genocide, torture and tyranny in Iraq, many antiwar activists saw the United States as the villain and aggressor." Of course - the two are not mutually exclusive! It is entirely possible for a) a target regime to be brutal and b) the aggressor to be a villain! Hitler attacked Stalin! Evil aggressors do not limit their targets to "good guys"! We must not call the evil good merely because something that appears good results from it (and I'm not that sure that what has resulted so far is all that "good", even in appearance). Besides, war is torture and tyranny, and when directed against despised "others", looks like genocide as well. He wrote: "The war in Iraq reveals a profound crisis in modern theology and the mainline church. Church leaders who opposed the war found themselves sharply at odds with their own congregations." Decade of failing to teach and preach about war when war was more distant or "reasonable" led to this! Leaders who accepted a militarized society and economy for generations will find that leadership cannot be turned on like a light switch. A pastor who has failed to speak out before will indeed appear to be more of a leader by failing to speak out (or going with the government) now. Congratulations on your leadership! - Bob Fleischer (Groton, MA) PETER LARSON RESPONDS: I'm glad that so many E-pistle readers took the time to respond to my article, "The Grief of Baghdad." I agree with many of the letter-writers that the U.S. was wrong to arm and support Saddam Hussein in the past. Saddam was, to some degree, a monster of our own making. However, this does not resolve the question of whether the Iraq war was morally justified. If I can summarize the response of anti-war activists, it seems to be this: Saddam Hussein was a ruthless tyrant, but we should have used other methods to remove him. That begs the question: what methods? Diplomacy failed. Assassination (attempted many times by Saddam's own military officers) failed. Twelve years of sanctions not only failed but increased the suffering of the Iraqi people. Efforts to support a popular uprising were brutally crushed by the Republican Guard. So the question remains: Was there any way to bring down Saddam, other than by armed conflict? If we had waited another 5-10 years, how many innocent Iraqis would have been killed, raped and tortured? When I read the arguments of anti-war activists, I am reminded of Neville Chamberlain who declared "peace for our time," after signing the Munich Agreement in 1938 with Hitler and Mussolini. Of course, this "peace" treaty produced no such thing, but plunged the world into six years of war in which 56 million people perished. To those who still question whether the Iraq war was justified, I would recommend THE THREATENING STORM by Kenneth Pollack (Random House, 2002). In this well-researched book (written prior to the war), Pollack makes the case that invading Iraq was the "least bad" option, and that the cost of waiting and inaction would have been infinitely greater.
Prayer from Kenya
From the Cowardice that dare not face new truth, From the Laziness that is contented with half-truth, From the Arrogance that thinks it knows all truth, Lord Deliver Me. | | Back to Top | | |
 |  Mayflower Registered Member
 Date Joined Mar 2002 Total Posts : 445 | Posted 6/20/2003 8:03 AM (GMT -6) |   | Re: REALITY CHECK
DLW wrote:
quote: ...the next issue, which came out today is full of letters to the editor
From PRISM Magazine:
quote: Editor's note:
MANY readers responded to Peter Larson's "The Grief of Baghdad" from our last issue. While it is tempting to most of us to read only those things with which we agree, such a practice neither challenges our thinking nor helps us build bridges of communication. Because of that, I make an effort to include views from a wide range of Christians, especially when those views originate from people whom I know to be justice-loving followers of Christ. We all need each other; we need to hear and engage with various views in order to challenge each other and grow.
Thus it was a thrill for me personally to receive so many well-reasoned and impassioned responses to Larson's piece. This is exactly the kind of debate we want to see the E-pistle serving! Thanks to all who participated - I hope I've included everyone who took the time to write in. To read Mr. Larson's response to readers' responses, please read through to the end of the first section of letters.
- Kristyn Komarnicki
Deep sorrow filled my heart as I read the "Letters to the Editor" that followed the publication of Peter Larson's article/opinion entitled, THE GRIEF OF BAGHDAD.
I thank you for sharing this article, and the profoundly moving letters-of-response from readers around the world.
Peace and blessings,
<><
| | Back to Top | | |
 |  Mayflower Registered Member
 Date Joined Mar 2002 Total Posts : 445 | Posted 6/20/2003 9:31 AM (GMT -6) |   | Prism E-Pistle Magazine:
LETTERS TO THE EDITOR in response to Robert Larson's article/opinion entitled, “The Grief of Baghdad”:
quote: Dear E-pistle,
I want to thank you for consistently providing excellent resources and commentary for Christians who are concerned about social justice. The value of this publication was particularly evident around the recent American invasion of Iraq, when you included numerous intelligent and thoughtful articles from diverse viewpoints. Having written this, I would like to offer an alternate perspective to Peter Larson's analysis of the anti-war movement in the June 4th issue of E-pistle.
Rev. Larson asserts that anti-war activists have "fallen strangely silent" in the aftermath of the recent U.S. invasion of Iraq. If one relied solely on mainstream American media such as NEWSWEEK, CNN, and MS-NBC, it may indeed appear that opponents of the war have stopped voicing their sentiments. However, I think it would be a mistake to draw this conclusion simply based on lack of representation on "op-ed pages and political talk shows." In fact, in certain communities, such as the one I belong to in the San Francisco Bay Area, the U.S. invasion and occupation have fueled passionate protests against U.S. policies in Iraq and other parts of the world, including U.S. domestic policies that increasingly appear to undermine the welfare of poor communities of color. Just this week, 200 activists demonstrated in front of Bechtel, a corporation with close links to the Bush administration that has been awarded one of the biggest contracts by the U.S. to "rebuild" Iraq. Eighteen were arrested. A week before that, a free, outdoor jazz festival with the theme "Stop U.S. Imperialism" drew thousands of attendees to a local park. In mid-June, a broad coalition of over 20 local community organizations, primarily representing people of color, will hold an anti-war march and rally in Oakland. In fact, around where I live, there have been at least several anti-war activities in various different communities EVERY WEEK. Based on messages proclaimed at these events, it appears that some communities have a broader definition of war than mainstream America and that, from their perspective, the war is not over. Predictably, these events are rarely covered in mainstream American media. San Francisco, of course, does not represent what may be happening nationwide. However, as much as the anti-war movement may represent a minority in the U.S., it represents the sentiments of the global majority and has been far from being silent worldwide.
Rev. Larson also suggests that the numerous evidence of the "grief of Baghdad" due to Saddam's despotic rule clearly demonstrates the moral justification of this particular war. Again, if we are serious about forming an intelligent and thoughtful understanding of the current situation, we should not rely solely on mainstream media. While the U.S. media provided a thorough coverage of the brutality of the Saddam Hussein regime, it did a heinous job of reporting the terrible atrocities of the U.S. military campaign on the Iraqis. The media also provided ample coverage of many Iraqi people, particularly the Kurds, welcoming U.S. troops. However, their coverage of the widespread and growing Iraqi resistance to the invasion and occupation continues to be atrocious. During the time of active military combat, many Iraqis refused to leave their homeland to become refugees. Instead, there were numerous reports of stiff resistance by ordinary Iraqi people facing the most terrifying military in world history. Instead of a huge refugee crisis as predicted by international observers, Iraqis and other supporters actually made attempts to travel INTO Iraq to defend it from foreign invaders. Since the war was declared essentially over on May 1, there have been numerous demonstrations demanding the U.S. to leave. Some Iraqis have resorted to armed resistance resulting in almost daily reports of American casualties. In fact, according to recent reports, many Iraqis believe that the U.S. was responsible for the two massacres recently unearthed and not Saddam Hussein. Apparently, the moral justification of the war is far from clear from the Iraqi perspective. And I would argue that theirs is the perspective that matters most.
Given "the grief of Baghdad" under Saddam's brutal regime, why do many (perhaps most) Iraqis continue to oppose the U.S., their would-be liberator? Perhaps my Korean background allows me some insight into this question which may be difficult for many Americans to understand. After the liberation of Korea from Japanese occupation in 1945, the southern portion of my country fell under U.S. military occupation. Subsequently, the U.S. instated and supported successive dictatorial regimes that terrorized and repressed my people for some 40 years. The dictators of South Korea imprisoned, tortured, and murdered anyone suspected of opposing the regime. In 1980, the dictator responded to a democratic uprising in the town of Kwangju with violent repression, massacring thousands of civilians. Decades of grassroots resistance marked by tremendous courage and sacrifice by students, trade unionists, and other activists finally resulted in a democratic civilian government in 1987. This was achieved not with the help of any foreign intervention, but despite foreign powers supporting the dictatorial regimes. From the perspective of many Koreans, the U.S. is inextricably associated with the dictators that it supported. Hence, our movement for democracy always had an anti-American flavor. I would guess that many Iraqis are accustomed to holding the U.S. at least partially responsible for the first 12 years of Saddam's oppressive rule which was largely funded by the U.S. It is no surprise to me, then, if many of the Iraqi people do not buy the idea that the U.S. is concerned about liberating them for democracy and freedom.
As a Korean, a person of color, and a Christian concerned about social justice, I would also like to present some lessons to be drawn from the recent invasion and occupation of Iraq:
One. There may be freedom of the press in the U.S., but for the most part, the media choose to present the same side of the story, particularly in times of war. Those of us wishing to develop well-informed opinions should seek independent and international news sources to supplement U.S. media reports and analyses.
Two. The value of self-determination is priceless. For this reason, many Iraqi people resisted the U.S. invasion even if it meant the long-awaited end to a hated dictator. People of the Third World have all too often experienced foreign powers taking away our natural resources along with our right to determine our own fates. Even the widely-accepted American notion that the U.S. has the authority to determine who needs liberation and who doesn't, what is morally justified for us and what isn't, is offensive to many of us.
Three. The U.S. government has no moral credibility in many parts of the world, and particularly among Third World communities. I realize this may be difficult for some Americans to swallow, but many of us simply don't believe that the U.S. has any interest in principles of democracy, freedom, human rights, etc. This may be because the America that many people here in the States experience is vastly different than the America that most Third World communities have encountered throughout history.
Four. For the American church to be relevant to issues of global justice, Christians need to gain a better understanding of viewpoints among the oppressed. For better or for worse, the U.S. is increasingly viewed as the enemy by many Third World communities. Engaging in meaningful discourse with these communities may require American Christians to let go a little of their American identity and embrace more of their Christian identity. This is bound to be extremely difficult for many Americans, but absolutely essential for anyone desiring to join in solidarity with the poor and the oppressed. - Sam Shin (San Francisco, CA)
Dear E-pistle, I'd like to take issue with Peter Larson's piece "The Grief of Baghdad." Larson began his piece saying antiwar voices have grown mute since the war ended, suggesting that such silence is proof that going to war was the right thing to do. Though Larson does point out that it is difficult to express opposition to a war that has already happened, I'd like to add that the war, finished though it is, is indeed getting some bad press. Just today NPR reported on the possibility that the U.S. exaggerated its intelligence that Hussein's regime had biological and chemical weapons to justify the rally to war. Tony Blair is facing a lot of heat back home for the absence of such weapons. TIME magazine reported, "Front-page stories in Britain now routinely question whether Blair lied to make his case, was lied to by the Americans or was the victim of a major intelligence blunder. A parliamentary inquiry is likely." Most would agree that the reputation of the United States abroad is lower than it has been in a long time. My point is that skepticism about the justness of the war is still alive and well.
I readily acknowledge and am pleased to receive news that many Iraqis are enjoying their new freedoms. I am relieved to see photos such as the one Larson mentioned of an Iraqi kissing a Marine on the cover of NEWSWEEK, but such images should be seen beside those of the young boy without arms and legs, the man carrying his bleeding daughter from the rubble that bombs left behind, the ransacked museums, and Iraqis hurling rocks at U.S. army vehicles. These are pictures of the cost of war, about which peace advocates warned, and which are also manifestations of the grief of Baghdad. - Chad Allen (Grand Rapids, MI)
Dear E-pistle, In "The Grief of Baghdad", Peter Larson makes some good points about the weaknesses of the anti-war movement. As someone who opposed the war, I wondered on more than one occasion if those who claimed to be speaking for me were trying to be stupid on purpose, and the million Mogadhishus comment made me roll my eyes and rant at my TV. That just goes to show that the media is more interested in good television than thoughtful discourse, and people who yell and say outrageous things are more entertaining than those who have a thoughtful opinion that does not fit on a protest poster.
Saddam was a cynical and brutal dictator who lived in obscene luxury, who tortured and oppressed his people to remain in power. Anyone who didn't think that he was evil simply wasn't paying attention. I, for one, am not sorry that he is gone. However, I still think that invading Iraq was a bad idea. The problem with most of the public conversation about the war was that it set up a false dichotomy, where our options were war or doing nothing.
Both sides of the debate skewed reality to fit their agendas. Although I take issue with the vast majority of Bush's policies, he is not Hitler, but neither was Saddam. When I say that, I am not referring to the state of his soul, but the political, economic and military reality of Iraq. Saddam was paranoid for a reason - Iraq had a crumbling infrastructure, a military with shaky loyalty, and significant portions of the population who had shown rebellious tendencies. Add to that the fact that the surrounding countries would just as soon have Saddam go away, and you have a dictator who knew his grip on his country was a tenuous one. Despite Bush's rhetoric about protecting us from weapons of mass destruction, Saddam posed no threat to us or neighboring countries - not because he didn't have the desire to attack, but because he knew he lacked the military power to attack us and maintain his gig as a dictator looting his country. If anyone has found chemical or biological weapons in Iraq, I have yet to hear about it, and that's not because we haven't been looking.
The outcome of the war was a no-brainer from the start, but I have serious doubts about whether we will have brought democracy to Iraq or whether the people of Iraq will find themselves with a repressive Taliban-esque regime in a few years. Chaos and poverty are excellent breeding grounds for extremism, and I think we will see a growing backlash against the American troops in the coming months, because hating Saddam is not the same thing as liking the U.S. Saddam may be gone, but that doesn't mean that daily life is any better for the Iraqis. The mess in Afghanistan is testament to the limits of a third-party military overthrow.
Rather than focusing on Saddam's possibly non- existent weapons of mass destruction, we should have focused on Saddam's oppression of his own people and sought out non-military means of a regime change. The human rights violations in Iraq are well- documented and horrifying, and even France would have a hard time justifying them, despite all of the money that country has made from Saddam's regime. We could have sought broad international support for indicting him and his sidekicks as war criminals and frozen the regime's assets. We could have promised massive aid for the reconstruction of the country if his own people would oust him. Change from within Iraq would take longer, but it would also be more likely to produce a stable and democratic government and less likely to feed the perception of the U.S. as an arrogant and imperialistic superpower.
This is already too long, but the world is complicated, and we would do a much better job of living in it if our public discourse and foreign policy tried to take that complexity into account. - Christy Lambertson (Los Angeles, CA)
Dear E-pistle, The only positive thing I can say about Peter Larson's article is that it is good to see PRISM doesn't have a "party line".
This is by far the weakest piece of theological reflection I have ever seen coming out of PRISM. Although it was helpfully enlightening to me as a snapshot from within American evangelicalism - mostly American, not very evangelical in a true sense of the word - I'm baffled why a magazine which "encourages Christians to live out the whole of the gospel with the whole of their lives" would think this article could contribute to those aims.
Let's see, as a follower of Christ I can justify an act of violent aggression against my neighbor when: my aggression is in degree less than his; I disagree with my critics' value system so can just ignore or vilify them; robust theology has become a democratic process; I find no wisdom in the counsel of others; and I take it as healthy to ignore a persistent voice of caution.
This may accord with the spirit of Davy Crockett (he certainly died defending his values!), but with the Spirit of Christ, never.
I hope you can find and present us, in the near future, with a more thoughtful essay on Christians and War. Rev. Howie Adan (Christ Church Amsterdam, Netherlands)
Dear E-pistle, Not all peacemakers have maintained silence after the end of the Iraq war, as Peter Larson contends. SOJOURNERS Magazine and its community, where I'm an intern, still openly maintains that while perhaps not the "worst evil" (since when do Christians measure evil on a sliding scale, anyway?), war is certainly never the best answer. Read Jim Wallis' post-war comments at http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm? ction=sojomail.display&issue=042403#3.
Many continue to stand for peace and justice, and many in the body of Christ continue to speak out against aggressive acts of war - whether they are perpetrated against the people of Iraq or on the working poor of our own nation. - Kate Bowman (Washington, D.C.)
Dear E-pistle, I find it odd that Peter Larson expects us who opposed the war in Iraq - or even the pastors of mainline denominations - to make a confession that we were wrong. Why should we apologize for what Jesus said? "He who lives by the sword will die by the sword." "Love your enemies... do good to those who hate you." I have compiled some 22 pages of texts that the New Testament clearly shows that the approach of using violence against those who do evil is completely opposed to Jesus' method of dealing with evil.
Jesus' approach is to allow the authoritative evil to do its evil and allow God to destroy it. Perhaps (even probably) Iraq and Afghanistan's regimes were destroyed by the empire of the United States because God determined that they were oppressing the poor. That is well and good. But that does not mean that the U.S. won't receive judgment as well.
This is the lesson of Habakkuk. Habakkuk wanted to have Judah judged for their evil. And so God told him that he would raise up Babylon to destroy Judah. Habakkuk's response was, "Lord, but they are so much more evil than we are! You aren't really supporting them, are you?" And the Lord replied, "I see their evil too and you need to believe that they will be punished as well, even as you see them in their glory. Every nation that oppressed the poor will be destroyed - whether now or later."
We can learn the same lesson. There has never been any question that Sadaam's regime in Iraq was evil and oppressed the innocent. That regime was rightly judged. However, in punishing evil, evil was done. The innocent were killed in both Iraq and Afghanistan - and in every war the U.S. was ever involved in. And everyone who was involved in oppressing the poor - whether done in the name of "freedom" or not - will be judged unless they repent.
I am not here to condemn President Bush or the soldiers who were involved in the war. However, I have been praying that they would repent, and they would confess the evil they have done so that healing in their lives may begin. - Steve Kimes (Pastor of Anawim Christian Community, Portland, OR)
Dear E-pistle, Mr. Larson's criticism of the supposed silence of those who opposed the illegal and imperialist invasion of Iraq was saddening. Mr. Larson argues that "war is evil, but it is not the worst nor the ultimate evil." These words bespeak a "postmodern" moral relativism elsewhere decried in his article justifying the war in Iraq. Our Lord and Savior offered no such relativist comfort to us in his unequivocal denunciation of all violence. The evils perpetrated by Saddam Hussein in no way justify the American government's systematized murder and looting of yet more innocent Iraqi people. Our prophetic clergy who openly and consistently took a courageous moral stand against violence may not be relevant to the world, but then that is not their vocation. As Christians we are to pray unceasingly for the coming Kingdom, which will always make us gloriously irrelevant to the worldly-minded. I am not aware of the silence that Mr. Larson mocks; to the contrary, the prophetic voices for peace continue in many venues and pulpits, if not on the Fox News Channel, but they were never heard there in the first place. To question the peacemakers' theological understanding of the real and pervasive presence of evil in the world is to question the forgiveness and redemption offered us in the death of our Lord who foolishly forgave those who executed him. This is not Mr. Rogers; this is our salvation. - Laura H. Norton (Bremerton, WA)
Dear E-pistle, I heartily agree with Peter Larson concerning the war in Iraq and its justification. I would only add the words of Michael Kelly, a correspondent from the ATLANTIC MONTHLY, who died in Gulf War II:
"I covered the [first] Gulf War as a reporter, and it was this experience, later compounded by what I saw reporting in Bosnia, that convinced me of the moral imperative, sometimes, for war. In liberated Kuwait City, one vast crime scene, I toured the morgue one day and inspected torture and murder victims left behind by the departing Iraqis . . . After that, I could never again stand the arguments of those who sat in the luxury of safety - 'advocating nonresistance behind the guns of the American fleet' - as George Orwell wrote of World War II pacifists - and held that the moral course was, in crimes against humanity as in crimes on the street corner: Better not to get involved, dear." (Quoted in the ATLANTIC MONTHLY, June 2003, p. 10) - Ken Koonce (Dallas, TX)
Dear E-pistle, As an evangelical and Presbyterian Christian I am very concerned with the position taken by Peter Larson. As someone who was opposed to war, but who felt that it may be the only option in the light of the situation and who readily admits not to have all the answers on this issue - and indeed that my position may well be proven to be wrong in the light of history! - I am concerned at the 'I told you so' attitude of Rev Larson's article. For me, the jury is still out as to whether the war was wise or otherwise, and will be for years to come. Defeating the Iraqi military has proven relatively straightforward; few would have doubted otherwise. However, winning the battle for the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people and the rest of the Middle East and Arab world is a totally different story. There is no doubt that the justification for war as we have heard it from our political leaders was on a very shaky foundation and certainly we were only given a distorted view of the facts.
Further, I am very concerned that the war will do much to harm our long-term relationship with our Muslim neighbors and make life more difficult for indigenous Christians in Iraq and across the Middle East.
Questions are also left unanswered about how we can justify the cost of this war when we are not prepared to address the causes of war and oppression: issues like our involvement in supplying arms to dictatorships throughout the developing world and our reluctance to deal with the root causes of poverty which essentially our greedy and protectionist economic policies.
I'm sorry, but if this is where evangelical Christianity is coming from, I'm very disappointed. - Richard Kerr (Belfast, Northern Ireland)
Dear E-pistle, "The Grief of Baghdad" by Peter Larson was quite disappointing. I regret I forwarded the E-pistle to my parishioners and colleagues to waste time reading this theological oversimplifications and unexamined assumptions. Don't undo your good work. - Samir Selmanovic (samir@crosswalkministries.com)
Dear E-pistle, Peter Larson's article made me see red. It is the type of U.S. patriotic triumphalism that has led us down the path of imperialism and brutal repression around the world.
Here are a few questions: > Since the U.S. helped install Hussein in power, supplied him with the materials to build his arsenal of weapons of mass destruction during the Iran-Iraq War, and protected him diplomatically from any consequences for the use of weapons of mass destruction during the same period, shouldn't we be held, at least in some part, morally liable for what Hussein did? All of the claims that I made have been documented in the mainstream press, including a photo of Donald Rumsfeld shaking hands with Hussein during a meeting in Baghdad shortly after Hussein gassed the Kurds in Halabja.
> Is the U.S. at all morally liable for its support of other brutal dictators? Our support for brutal dictators in Iran (the Shah that we installed and that the Iranian people drove out in 1979), Indonesia (Suharto who murdered hundreds of thousands after seizing power with U.S. complicity and murdered hundreds of thousands more while invading East Timor with U.S. complicity), Guatemala (various regimes who received overt or covert U.S. support during a genocidal assault on their Mayan population, a fact documented in the U.N. report after the peace accords), El Salvador, Nicaragua, and on and on. You will have to forgive me if I find our claim to be the liberator of Iraq out of our deep humanitarian concern more than a little questionable.
>Is the Bush administration morally liable for its massive use of lies and deceit in its drive for war? It is now well documented that there was no link between Iraq and al-Qaeda. The administration pushed the intelligence agencies to cook the intelligence to sell such a link as part of the propaganda campaign for the war. I would think that the total absence of weapons of mass destruction in a country we have controlled for more than two months, as well as the ease with which the U.S. military crushed the Iraqi military, would put the lie to all the claims of the imminent threat that justified "pre-emptive war."
> If we are the liberators then why are we staying in control rather than moving to set up structures to allow the Iraqis to make their own choices? Will they be able to establish an Islamist government aligned with Iran if that is what the majority wants? Will they be able to maintain state control over Iraqi oil reserves if that is what the majority wants? Will they be able to opt out of the U.S. dominated global economic system if that is what the majority wants? It looks to me more like the Iraqis have about as much say in their affairs now as they did under Hussein.
Oh, by the way, Hussein's government arranged to effectively feed the Iraqi people during the sanctions. The U.S. imposed sanctions (we effectively forced the U.N. to continue the sanctions) were what brought misery and starvation to the Iraqi people. We were the ones who said, in Madeline Albright's words, that the deaths of 500,000 Iraqi children "was worth it." The statements about the Food Program are documented by the U.N. administrators.
So excuse me, I opposed the war and I still feel that I was morally justified. The Iraqi people are rid of Hussein who was undeniably a brutal thug. They are better off rid of him. But I still believe that one fundamental principle of morality is that good ends do not justify evil means. We will see what the fruits of our actions are. After all, "by their fruits you will know them." - John Hahn-Francini
Dear E-pistle, I must reply to the piece on the "silence after the war." I too mourn the silence after the war from peace activists. However, I don't think it can be said that we were simply wrong. I read the Scriptures that we repay evil with good...not evil with evil. Peace-making is not war-making. If we are ever to have a civil, humane world, we human beings must learn to deal with evil in another way than by seeking to stamp it out with war.
One last thought: Is it not naive and unrealistic to assume that we are good and they are evil to such an extent as to justify any means? Is it not true that as Christians we believe that the ends do not justify the means, that utopia cannot be attained by evil means? I truly think that those who perpetrated this war are lacking in a "radical understanding of sin and evil." - Larry Coleman
Dear E-pistle, Thank you, Peter Larson, for your 5 lessons learned from "The Grief of Baghdad." Perhaps the now silent protesters will digest your words rather than their feet. Well done. - Carolyn Presley
Dear E-pistle, On the whole, in the past I have found your articles very worthwhile. However, since I have read "The Grief of Baghdad" by Peter Larson in the latest issue, I am thoroughly disgusted that you included such an ill-conceived piece in the PRISM E-pistle.
Re: "postmodernism." Surely moral relativism and epistomological solipsism have been around for far longer than postmodernism. The denial of the reality of good and evil, of objective truth and falsehood - which Christianity must always oppose - has been around for centuries.
Most people who have seriously studied postmodernism recognize that it is ambiguous and complex, to say the least! There are in fact many potential points of contact between Christianity and postmodernism. I am not trying to defend postmodernism, either - merely to say that a Christian response to postmodernism needs to be more nuanced than Peter Larson's simplistic and facile statements.
Re: "trusting in coalitions." In the first section Larson refers to World War II, which was obviously not a war that was fought by the U.S. alone (remember "the Allies"??). Moreover, the recent invasion of Iraq was consistently portrayed by the U.S. administration as a "coalition" effort (conducted along with England and supported by Spain, Poland, etc). Yet Larson writes: "Repeatedly, God warns his people NOT to trust in coalitions or political alliances, but to put their trust in God alone. In the history of Israel we see the disastrous result of a nation that put its faith in coalitions instead of trusting God." The theological and hermeneutical naivete evident in these statements is astonishing, given the level of thought that I have come to expect from the E-pistle. Does Larson really think that all those who advocated acting against Iraq in concert with the United Nations failed to trust in God, and only those who were willing to follow the demands of the U.S. administration to attack Iraq apart from U.N. approval trusted in God? Is trusting in God equivalent to blindly trusting the U.S. administration? Is trusting in God equivalent to following the new American imperialist agenda? Such black and white, "us" vs. "them" thinking is not only incredibly superficial but also dangerous and deceptive; it also maligns many sincere and thoughtful Christians who disagreed with the U.S. administration's agenda precisely because we trusted in God!
It is not surprising that Larson expresses criticism of the mainline churches' opposition to the Iraq invasion. Nevertheless, when he goes on to say: "In charting our foreign policy the only relevant question should be: Is this right or wrong? In the words of Davy Crockett, 'Make sure you're right, then go ahead.' It is not a bad thing to have the support of other nations, but as Christians, we cannot abdicate our moral judgment to a coalition." Larson here in fact treads on the very ground that was the basis for the churches' opposition to the invasion. They took their position on the basis of a clearly MORAL evaluation of the situation (and I believe that their position was far more morally defensible than the Southern Baptists' fawning support for Bush's relentless determination to invade Iraq). Larson is simply wrong to implicitly deny that only those who supported the invasion were exercising moral judgment.
Moreover, I completely fail to understand how under "Point 3, A Theological Crisis," Larson can make his point about the discrepancy between the church leaders and the views of "people in the pew" about the invasion of Iraq and then proceed from that to say: "In the mainline church today we suffer from a utopian and naive theology that does not take seriously the depth of human sin, evil and the fallen nature of human beings. The Protestant Reformers - Luther and Calvin - understood that evil must be restrained and resisted. By contrast, modern theology views the world as a larger version of Mr. Rogers' Neighborhood, in which human beings are basically good and reasonable. We need to recover a true biblical theology, which comprehends the radical nature of sin and evil."
I completely fail to see how this relates to his earlier point about the discrepancy between church leaders and laity in their views of the invasion of Iraq.
Moreover, accusing the mainline churches of playing down the seriousness of human sin and evil is an old and tired refrain; it was certainly valid as a critique of 19th-century liberalism, and no doubt there are some in the mainline churches today who hold such naive views of human nature. But to describe the theology of the mainline churches today as a whole in such terms is a staggering over- generalization, indeed it is really a terrible caricature of the faith of many faithful and orthodox Christians (both clergy and laity) within the mainline churches. - Rev. Dr. Tim Hegedus (Assistant Professor of New Testament Theology at Waterloo Lutheran Seminary, Wilfrid Laurier University, Waterloo, Ontario, Canada)
Dear E-pistle, Peter Larson's article, "The Grief of Baghdad," was truthfully titled. Baghdad, along with the entire country of Iraq, has only known grief since Saddam came to power. However, I would like to challenge the content of the article. The (postmodern) truth about this war is that sometimes U.S. foreign policy, such as supporting an evil dictator named Saddam, is worse than war because it only served to sustain an evil dictator and create war. I only need to reference the Iraq-Iran war in which the U.S. supported Saddam even with the full knowledge that he was developing and using WMD. The moral high ground claimed by the Bush Administration collapses when the history between the U.S. and Iraq is uncovered. By uncovering the U.S. relations with Iraq, the theological crisis that should emerge within the Christian church is one of identity. Who will we finally place our trust in and give our service to - God or the State? Of course, I think a God who chose to die on a cross, in contrast to rallying the oppressed Jewish masses to rebel against the Roman government, would probably not want us today supporting the violence of a state who attacks the very ruler they once supported and armed. Indeed, the grief of Baghdad should especially extend to Christians who live within the State claiming to be liberators. - William Holley Jr. (Pueblo, CO)
Dear E-pistle, Peter Larson wrote: "War is a terrible evil, but there are things worse than war. For a nation to be systematically starved and oppressed is worse than war." Of course, it was the U.S. (with the U.K.'s support) that systematically starved and oppressed Iraq for 12 years. It was indeed "worse than war" - with the ironic result that many seemed to be arguing that our going to war against Iraq would be a good way to put an end to the brutality of our sanctions!
He wrote: "For a tyrant to commit genocide against his own people - wiping out entire villages - is worse than war." Hardly: the total death toll of this year's Iraqi war far exceeded the size of what most would consider a "village" - and death is only the most immediate effect of war! This is especially true when war is waged with weapons of long-term environmental consequences.
He wrote: "In many ways, Iraq was our first postmodern war. Despite the overwhelming evidence of genocide, torture and tyranny in Iraq, many antiwar activists saw the United States as the villain and aggressor." Of course - the two are not mutually exclusive! It is entirely possible for a) a target regime to be brutal and b) the aggressor to be a villain! Hitler attacked Stalin! Evil aggressors do not limit their targets to "good guys"! We must not call the evil good merely because something that appears good results from it (and I'm not that sure that what has resulted so far is all that "good", even in appearance).
Besides, war is torture and tyranny, and when directed against despised "others", looks like genocide as well.
He wrote: "The war in Iraq reveals a profound crisis in modern theology and the mainline church. Church leaders who opposed the war found themselves sharply at odds with their own congregations." Decade of failing to teach and preach about war when war was more distant or "reasonable" led to this! Leaders who accepted a militarized society and economy for generations will find that leadership cannot be turned on like a light switch.
A pastor who has failed to speak out before will indeed appear to be more of a leader by failing to speak out (or going with the government) now. Congratulations on your leadership! - Bob Fleischer (Groton, MA)
[end]
<><
| | Back to Top | | |
 |  DLW Registered Member
 Date Joined Apr 2003 Total Posts : 2457 | Posted 11/6/2003 5:30 AM (GMT -6) |   | This is taken from the following web-site... http://www.christiansoldier.org/
When This War Is Over (A War Resolution)
Terence Sheridan
The following is a resolution concerning the current U.S. war with Iraq. It is proposed by one who is a conscientious objector, an American, and a New Testament Christian:
1. When this war is over, some of us will not forget the scandalous behavior exhibited by many politically conservative Christians. We heard hateful jokes celebrating the death of Arabs as an ethnic group. We have heard slanderous accusations that Christians opposed to the war are Anti-American, liberal, cowards, etc. We have been constantly exposed to the insane rants of jingoism. To quote George H. W. Bush (our current President's father), "THIS WILL NOT STAND."
2. When this war is over, some of us will not forget the half- truths and deceptions that were swallowed and propagated by supporters of our government's actions. The ignorance of so many Christians about what our government has done must be challenged. In one sense, the war with Iraq may only be the beginning, not the end, of woes for our nation.
3. When this war is over, some of us will not forget the brazenly hypocritical double-standards by which many Christians have judged the morality of their country's leaders. We are told bombing Serbia was wrong, but bombing Iraq is moral. We are told the Democrats are "baby-killers." Yet, it's supposedly acceptable for a Republican President to maintain "free trade" with an oppressive regime that not only has killed babies, but has also persecuted Christians. We were told it was acceptable to criticize a Democratic President's actions, but now are told to honor a Republican President's behavior.
4. When this war is over, some of us will not forget the bias in certain religious publications (including those affiliated with churches of Christ) that were partial to pro-war voices.
5. When this war is over, some of us will not forget the core ethics of the Bible and what it commands concerning our fellow human beings. Some of us have the integrity to realize that passages such as Matthew 5:43-48 and 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 preclude a "get them before they get us" mentality that characterizes this war.
6. When this war is over, some of us will not forget that the ENDS DO NOT JUSTIFY THE MEANS (Romans 3:8). The war will not be justified on the basis of it being short or resulting in minimal "collateral damage." It will not be justified if we see Iraqis cheering on TV, throwing rose petals at American soldiers. It will not be justified even if soldiers find containers of nerve agents in some bunker south of Baghdad. It can only be justified beforehand, independent of results, and as a deed unto itself for which men must give an account (2 Corinthians 5:10).
7. When this war is over, some of us will not forget that the number of people subscribing to a certain belief does not provide legitimacy for that belief. If the President has the right to disagree with world opinion on the current war, then one has a right to disagree with a large segment of the Lord's Church if one believes that segment is in error. Indeed, the path of righteousness has never been popular (Matthew 7:13-14). It does not matter, consequently, what a clique of respected gospel preachers say about the "war question." Only the Bible matters (1 Thessalonians 2:4; 1 Peter 4:11).
8. When this war is over, some of us will not forget the abysmal failure by many gospel preachers and ordinary Christians to state any convincing Biblical case for war in general. All we heard were the typical appeals to emotion and the perversions and hackneyed flaunting of proof-texts (Romans 13, Luke 3:14, etc.). Again, to quote a former President, "THIS WILL NOT STAND."
9. When this war is over, some of us will not forget righteousness demands that one have no fellowship with the works of darkness and that one expose such works (Ephesians 5:11). When religious leaders tell us to "forget about it," "move on," etc., we will not accommodate them. We will reject any attempts to sweep the "war question" under the rug of "opinions" over which "sound brethren disagree." An ecclesiastical unity that papers over serious doctrinal disagreement without honest evaluation and consistent application is a theological sham. A faith that cares more about the hemline of a teenage girl's dress than it does about the deaths and misery imposed by government sanctioned aggression is a moral sham.
10. When this war is over, some of us will reevaluate our relationship with visible fellowships of Christians in this society. The following are some questions that will weigh heavily on our minds:
(1) Should a Christian opposed to war withdraw from a church that either tacitly or explicitly condones the involvement of Christians in military action? (2) Is it possible for one opposed to war to continue to share a pew with another who adamantly embraces war? (3) To what extent is a local church culpable by harboring those who have manifested the ungodly spirit of jingoism?
Let it be understood that while some of us are opposed to war in the carnal realm, we recognize its necessity in the spiritual realm (Ephesians 6:12; Jude 3). Therefore, we will be ruthless in our attempt to obliterate every diabolical weapon of mass deception. Error will be exposed for what it is and the status and reputation of the one espousing it will not matter to us (see Galatians 2:6, 11-13). Our longsuffering should not be regarded as approval for error. Indeed, while we disdain division among Christians and eschew malice, we also realize that purity matters more than popularity. To those who oppose our convictions, we say this: You have been warned (Ezekiel 3:17-21).
March 2003
Niebuhr thought that sustained moral energy in politics depended on religion's power to mobilize reason along with self-transcending love. The prophetic tradition, meanwhile, gave Jews and Christians some protection against the temptation to identify their social causes with God's will. Lincoln's second inaugural address expressed the prophetic insight, "The almighty has His own purposes." | | Back to Top | | |
| Forum Information | Currently it is Monday, November 09, 2026 1:11 PM (GMT -6) There are a total of 97,718 posts in 6,040 threads. In the last 3 days there were 0 new threads and 0 reply posts. View Active Threads
|
Forum powered by dotNetBB v2.42EC SP3 dotNetBB © 2000-2026 |
|
|