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honorman
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1137

Posted 9/1/2003 7:44 PM (GMT -6)

Today was the third anniversery of my neice's death. She died of cancer and left two young children who my sister has cared for. I often think back on her death with a despair that I think revolves around prayer.
I prayed for her healing but I didn't believe it would happen. And then I wondered why I prayed at all. Now I know I really prayed for comfort, for my ability to get through it, for those of us who were left behind. See, I look around the world and see all these people dying, dying of starvation, of AIDS, of murder and I think, why should I even bother to ask God for a special favor when he isn't doing any of these people special favors? Why would I think I am that special? And I think of my niece wasting away from cancer and how exhausting and draining and emotionally crippling that was and I think, things never change and when people get cancer they usually die and if they don't its not because God does something, but because the medicine or luck or some other factor. But not God.
So what is prayer for? For me, its comfort. And a mental relief. I still prayer to God for things, but I really don't ask him his will because I figure he'll happen like he wants it to anyway. Sometimes its hard to trust a God who has so much power but uses so little of it in our lives.... Sad

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 9/2/2003 5:00 AM (GMT -6)

I don't know what to say.

This past week, we had a health economist here giving a mini-class at my university. He was an elderly fellow and from some of his remarks I'm guessing he was a Christian.

I'm considering trying to move into that area.

I guess the stock open answer would be to affirm that prayer does have petitionary power, but life is complicated and situations are often serious and so we can't expect to always see results from when we pray. But we should keep on praying and not just for God to help us to understand the situation.

For me, I feel it is important to pray for the acrimony in our gov't to be reduced and for the cultural wars to not play as big of a role in our nat'l politics, since these things are harming our democracy and our ability to take collective action to prevent things like the blackout we recently experienced and to do more to prevent the spread of AIDS and the list can go on.

Anyways, that's not s'posed to be a partisan plug, but rather a description of why I think it is important to pray for our leaders and to pray for the greater civility and transparency of how our gov't works.

dlw

Niebuhr thought that sustained moral energy in politics depended on religion's power to mobilize reason along with self-transcending love. The prophetic tradition, meanwhile, gave Jews and Christians some protection against the temptation to identify their social causes with God's will. Lincoln's second inaugural address expressed the prophetic insight, "The almighty has His own purposes."

Electra
Registered Member

Date Joined Feb 2002
Total Posts : 611

Posted 9/2/2003 5:19 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by honorman

Today was the third anniversery of my neice's death. She died of cancer and left two young children who my sister has cared for. I often think back on her death with a despair that I think revolves around prayer.
I prayed for her healing but I didn't believe it would happen. And then I wondered why I prayed at all. Now I know I really prayed for comfort, for my ability to get through it, for those of us who were left behind. See, I look around the world and see all these people dying, dying of starvation, of AIDS, of murder and I think, why should I even bother to ask God for a special favor when he isn't doing any of these people special favors? Why would I think I am that special? And I think of my niece wasting away from cancer and how exhausting and draining and emotionally crippling that was and I think, things never change and when people get cancer they usually die and if they don't its not because God does something, but because the medicine or luck or some other factor. But not God.
So what is prayer for? For me, its comfort. And a mental relief. I still prayer to God for things, but I really don't ask him his will because I figure he'll happen like he wants it to anyway. Sometimes its hard to trust a God who has so much power but uses so little of it in our lives....

Honorman, I’m sorry for your loss. My aunt died of cancer a few years back, and the experience of walking with someone who is facing death is indeed exhausting and draining and emotionally crippling.

When in the midst of such journeys, God’s power is indeed active even if he is at work in ways that we can only know by faith, not sight. Christ not only offers redemption from sin, but also from suffering. The only way I can make sense out of this is that healing is not a question of “if,” but rather “when.” My aunt never recovered from her cancer. But I still believe God will heal her.

Electra

Love in action is a harsh and dreadful thing. ~ Dostoevsky

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 9/2/2003 5:30 AM (GMT -6)

My grandpa died from cancer at age 67 less than ten years ago.

It was the first close person to me in my family that died. We were going to name my littlest sister Don after him if she had been a boy.

I had a sort of friend in grad-school whose father was a surgeon. And one point she remarked that she had considered becoming a doctor because it was helpful to have someone on the inside of the medical profession, since there were a lot of "morons" practicing.

I remember getting so angry and sharing about how my grandfather died of liver cancer and asking, "what if he had one of those morons practicing on him...".

I miss my grandfather and keep my memories of him alive. He shared a lot of stories about my family with me and I have tried to collect further stories since then.

anyways, I'm sure it hurts. Its kind of hard to do my own work when it looks like the world is getting worse these days.

later,
dlw

fyodor
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2002
Total Posts : 179

Posted 9/2/2003 6:18 AM (GMT -6)

My wife is becoming increasingly prophetic in her prayer life. Before church this weekend she prayed for the service to have some specific influences though she didn't know to whom they would happen. Without prompting, I watched as 4 different people came up to her after the service and told her that her prayers were for them, and had been answered in the service.

I think I can count on one hand the times I have seen my prayers answered in a specific way that I was able to understand, but seeing the way prayers are answered when my wife takes something to the Lord makes my faithlessness decrease.

Maybe its just the process theology in me, but I think God always responds to prayer, almost can't help but to respond to prayers, I just don't know what it looks like most of the time.

†††"One rarely finds an exposition of which it holds true that the exposition is that which is expounded." – S. Kierkegaard

BBBCanada
Registered Member

Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 2763

Posted 9/2/2003 6:58 AM (GMT -6)

Man, life sure SUCKS...it's the hallowness of it that I can't stand sometimes. Someone dies and you are left standing there with a blank look on your face and a empty feeling in the pit of your guts!

I appreciate the hope that Electra offered. This song was done by Wayne Watson for a friend whose wife past away and left two little babies, hence the reference in the song. She had wondered before her death, "My children will never know me. And I will never know them." (paraphrased).

Home Free

I'm trying hard not to think you unkind
But Heavenly Father
If you know my heart
Surely you can read my mind
Good people underneath the sea of grief
Some get up and walk away
Some will find ultimate relief

Chorus
Home Free, eventually
At the ultimate healing we will be Home Free
Home Free, oh I’ve got a feeling
At the ultimate healing
We will be Home Free

Out in the corridors we pray for life
A mother for her baby, A husband for his wife
Sometimes the good die young
It's sad but true
And while we pray for one more heartbeat
The real comfort is with you

You know pain has little mercy
And suffering's no respecter of age, of race or position
I know every prayer gets answered
But the hardest one to pray is slow to come
Oh Lord, not mine, but Your will be done

Let it be...

Chorus
Home Free, eventually
At the ultimate healing we will be Home Free
Home Free, oh I’ve got a feeling
At the ultimate healing
We will be Home Free

Home Free, eventually
At the ultimate healing gonna be Home Free
Home Free, oh it’s more than a feeling
At the ultimate healing
Gonna be Home Free

Brandon

"Corporations are simply the kind of structure that rises when hordes of people need to be managed, and after spending some time in a large church, I've found that our spirituality does not exempt us from these inefficient and dehumanizing practices."--Steve Lansingh's review of "The Office" at The Film Form

Springs
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 636

Posted 9/3/2003 5:04 AM (GMT -6)

Honorman, I’m sorry to hear this is a time of grief for you. I will pray for your comfort. We can’t really know who all God is doing special favors for. My understanding is that the rain falls on all our houses, and that he blesses even the lost. Yes, there is suffering in the world, and possibly even more so for Christians, but God is the God of all comfort, and even in the midst of our greatest pains he is with us. Tangibly. You are special because you are created in the image of God, and he loves you with an undying love. He will never leave you nor forsake you.

God says we have not, because we don’t ask in faith. (Only one variable in the problem of unanswered prayer) There have been times when I didn’t pray a particular way because I didn’t have faith for it, so it would have been a waste of time, other times I don’t pray in a particular way because I don’t believe it would be God’s will. Because Jesus taught that we should pray the Father’s will be done, I try to do that. I try to listen to what he would have me pray, I try to pray his heart. But I also pray from mine. Sometimes I don’t feel led to pray for physical healing, other times I do. I think it is more important to pray for spiritual health than physical health. But I also have the philosophy that no prayer is too small. I believe we have a part in his will being done on this earth, our prayers are one way we do that.

I spent many years on a prayer team. I would be in prayer an average of 12 hours a week. Not to mention just conversing with the Lord during the day. You know how Moses’ face was glowing when he came out of the Lord’s presence. After having experienced entering into prayer for hours and hours at a time, I think I have some idea of how that might have felt. Sometimes it seems to me I can actually feel the glory of God fading away later.

Abiding in him is so key. I saw many, many miraculous answers to prayer while I ministered for the Lord. I have seen spiritual health returned and even physical healing. It may be that you were praying God’s will as you prayed for those who were left behind. I am glad that you have found comfort in prayer. I pray that you will continue to take time for prayer and be refreshed by his spirit, that you will experience the depth of his love for you, and that he will strengthen your faith in prayer to pray his will into reality.

And now I see I have written overlong. I should have known better than to start trying to write about prayer, it’s a marvelous thing!

Back to work,
Blessings,
Springs

Tom
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353

Posted 9/3/2003 6:17 AM (GMT -6)

Honorman-

I pray you experience the comfort and encouragement of God's embrace. I'm sorry to know you grieve and pray God may powerfully work in your circumstances.

Tom

DLW
Registered Member

Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457

Posted 9/3/2003 8:01 AM (GMT -6)

This is taken from Prism E-pistle

2.RECOVERY WEEKEND: Remembering victims of addiction
in prayer, September 19-21.

A weekend of prayer for all struggling with, and in
recovery from addictive illnesses.

Almost everyone knows someone who struggles with an
addictive illness - be it alcoholism, drug abuse or
addiction to destructive activities such as
pornography or gambling. During worship, we so often
pray for those struggling with cancer, heart
conditions, or other "acceptable" medical conditions
- but the prayer requests for addictive illnesses
are too often stifled by a sense of embarrassment.
Addictive illnesses affect us all. Fear and shame
are barriers to recovery and healing.

Whatever day your house of worship has services -
Friday, Saturday or Sunday - won't you ask them to
join us in prayer on Recovery Weekend?

For more information, go to www.RecoveryWeekend.org.

shell
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2002
Total Posts : 280

Posted 9/3/2003 9:12 AM (GMT -6)

Honorman,

I know many of us can share your pain of unanswered prayers, and especially the pain of the deaths that are so premature and leave many hurting and questioning.

My husband's 40 year old cousin, with four young children, was diagnosed with metastatic melanoma. The deadly form of skin cancer that has spread internally. He was told by the oncologist to get his affairs in order, there was no viable treatment, and that he only had months to live if he was lucky. He looked point blank at the Dr. and said "God told me He is going to heal me and I don't accept that diagnosis." The Oncolgist told him to go to therapy. He was prayed over by a large group of believers, and that was over two years ago. He has a clean bill of health. They do body scans on him every three months, and the Dr.'s are astonished and cannot explain why he is cancer free, and the picture of health.

On the other hand, we had another friend with four young children die of a cancerous brain tumor four years ago. This man loved the Lord, and had many people praying over him.

Experiences like the first one I shared, and the progressive healing that the Lord promised me for my daughter five years ago, keeps my faith strong and burning. I know God does heal and that we should always pray to that end. But I also understand the questions.

Shell

honorman
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1137

Posted 9/4/2003 9:31 AM (GMT -6)

I suppose my problem is with the seemingly arbitratious of prayer. I've talk to many Christians who claim healing and will say God healed them of cancer, but when the results are in there is really nothing much different between them and a non-christian who simply went into remission. That doesn't mean I don't praise God for it, but I sometimes wonder what the benefit is of being a Christian and knowing an all-powerful God if that power is not readily availible. Having said that i don't want to sound like I expect God to be a Santa Claus and give me anything I want. But it is hard to believe in a God sometimes who is so distant.

shell
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2002
Total Posts : 280

Posted 9/4/2003 12:26 PM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by honorman
I've talk to many Christians who claim healing and will say God healed them of cancer, but when the results are in there is really nothing much different between them and a non-christian who simply went into remission.

I can see what you are saying here. I just think Christians tend to want to give the glory to God when they have prayed to be healthy and cancer free, and it happens, even if it is by medical means. They believe that God has worked in and through the medical intervention.

The case of my husband's cousin wasn't one of those cases though. He was diagnosed with the metastatic cancer, given the hopeless prognosis, received no immediate treatment, and then all of the tests began coming back negative (except the first one that confirmed that he had metastatic cancer. That test was confirmed several times and finally confirmed through the Mayo clinic). Just wanted to clarify.

Shell

honorman
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1137

Posted 9/4/2003 1:13 PM (GMT -6)

Shell, I hope you don't think I was discrediting what you said. I wasn't. I think all Christians should give glory to God and thanks to God however the healing comes about.

shell
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2002
Total Posts : 280

Posted 9/4/2003 7:55 PM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by honorman

Shell, I hope you don't think I was discrediting what you said. I wasn't. I think all Christians should give glory to God and thanks to God however the healing comes about.

Thanks. No I didn't think you were trying to discredit me, I just wanted to clarify his testimony.

Shell

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