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| Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Let’s solve the problem of evil > A Hell of a Dream - On Death, Hell, and Eternity | Forum Quick Jump
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hand_carved
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2002
Total Posts : 111
| Posted 12/5/2002 5:27 AM (GMT -6) |   | This is a speech I'm giving today on my theory of Hell. It's a more difinitive version of my previous thread starter. Love to hear your thoughts.
blessings...
hc
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A Hell of a Dream - the "Dream Synthesis" of Hell
I have a theory on Hell that I came to last semester when doing a research report, and I’ve not seen this theory in any books I’ve read. There have been similarities to it in a couple of places, but nothing that talks about some of the discoveries I made. It’s a work in progress by an amateur theologian, but it makes some important points. And so I’m going to share with you the story of how I came to believe that it is…well…a Hell of a Dream.
A couple of years ago, I ask about 1000 students (Jr. High, High, and College) why they did not believe in Christianity. Among their responses, one of the three most frequently named reasons for not believing the Gospel was the doctrine of Hell. It is the same reason I have heard many times throughout my life from young and old. They say, “How could a loving God send someone to Hell at all, much less an eternity of being tortured in Hell for sins that are done within just a few years of life. This kind of God is not loving; this God is sadistic. And when one considers that many have never even heard the name of Jesus, how could it be at all just for God to send them to be tortured in Hell forever when they have never even had a chance to go to heaven?”
Well, you know…that’s a good question that we should be able to answer. But before we can really answer that question, we really need to know what the Bible says that Hell is.
There are a number of different theories for Hell, but I’m only going to talk about the two most popular theories among theologians – the Traditional view and Annihilationism – and then discuss my own.
Currently in the evangelical theological ring, there is hot debate between the Annihilationists and the Traditionalists. Both have very good arguments for their positions, and both are very biblically based. The Traditional view is based upon the passages that characterize the punishment of the unrighteous in Hell as being eternal in consciousness and duration. The wicked never die in Hell, but they are being tormented forever either by literal or metaphorical fire.
The Annihilationists, on the other hand, is based on the passages that speak of the wicked being consumed by fire, burnt up like chaff, destroyed, etc. They say that the fate of the wicked is to be punished by fire for a time, but then ultimately consumed. They are not tortured forever, but eventually die and cease to exist.
When I began my research on Hell, I held the Traditional view. After a little bit of research, I became convinced of the Annihilationist view. Then, after further research and consideration, I went back to the Traditional view…only to subsequently switch back the Annihilationist view.
I was left befuddled. I saw logic in both sides, but in both sides I also saw holes. But then I had an idea, “You know, why does it have to be either the Traditional view or the Annihilationist view?”
You see, the Traditionalists have to skew over the numerous texts that describe the fate of the wicked as “burnt up like chaff” (Matt 3.12), “burnt up” (Matt 13.30), “destroyed” (Matt 10.28), “Death” (Rom 1.32). These kinds of descriptions are used over 24 times, but the Traditionalists have to say, “not literal destruction,” “Not literal death,” “Not really burnt up.” They claim that the references to the eternality of the punishment should be taken literally while the references to the finality or destruction of them should be taken metaphorically. They are inconsistent.
But the Annihilationists are guilty of the same mistake. They say that the verses that refer to the destruction of the wicked should be taken literally while those that refer to the eternality of the punishment (such as Rev 14.11 “the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever”, and Matt 25.46 “eternal punishment”) should be taken in a more non-literal sense, or else refer to the eternal consequences of the sin – that is, never able to live again.
The Annihilationists actually argue the best case between the two, but even they admit that several verses can be interpreted to be eternal conscious punishment. In fact, when the issue reaches Revelation 20.10, they are virtually speechless. It reads, “And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.” Some say, “But that’s the devil and his angels, not humans.” Ah but wait! The wicked are said to have the same kind of fate as the devil and his angels (Matt 25.41), and yet this passage says that they will be tortured day and night for ever and ever. The only semi-valid argument Annihilationists have given to this passage is, as Clark Pinnock says, “This text comes closest in my mind to confirming the traditional view. It would be ironical if the issue came down to the interpretation of a single verse in Revelation….” In other words, they aren’t really constructing their theology according to the scriptures, but rather completely dismiss a scripture that obviously stands against their theology.
Neither party is consistent in their interpretation of the scriptures; whatever doesn’t fit with their theology, they say it is figurative. They insist on “either/or”, theology and they don’t open the possibility of “both/and.” One passage seems to depict both/and perfectly, 2 Thess. 1.9 “These will pay the penalty of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power.” This passage describes the destruction as being “eternal.” They are actually destroyed, but it is described as “eternal destruction.” Furthermore, those who are “eternally destroyed” suffer the punishment of being separated from the Lord for eternity. If, as the Annihilationists say, they are not conscious…how is being separated from God a punishment if they are not conscious of being separated or even conscious at all? Theology, above all the academic disciplines, needs to think outside of the box, especially when we are speaking of the transcendent nature of God and eternity.
Christianity believes many paradoxes. The Incarnation of Christ: 100% mortal man and yet 100% immortal God. The Trinity: One God in three Persons. We can’t make complete sense out of this. It is an apparent contradiction, and yet we believe it. Is it so hard to believe that those who go to hell are destroyed, but yet remain conscious in some way throughout eternity?
Even physics believes in a number of paradoxes. Physicists have determined that light has both particle-like and wavelike characteristics. There is also an apparent contradiction between quantum mechanics and electromagnetism. For years, physicists have wondered how one set of rules can be in effect on a large scale while another set of rules works on the atomic scale. In his book The Elegant Universe, Dr. Brian Greene explains this phenomenon and says that scientists now have a theory that attempts to unify the two contradictory facts. This unified theory they call Superstring Theory. One of the elements of this theory is that there are more dimensions than we think. In fact, Greene says that they have determined there to be at least 11 dimensions including our three spatial and one time dimension. In essence, even physicists are confessing that there is more to reality than what we see. It’s not “either/or.” In order for both electromagnetism and quantum mechanics to be true, they had to think outside of the box.
Hell and the afterlife in general is a reality beyond that which anyone alive has ever experienced. Consider the resurrected body of Jesus – he could walk through walls, disappear, and even fly! That just doesn’t happen in our reality. Eternity is going to be different. So, why can’t theologians do the same thing in regard to the doctrine of Hell – think outside of the box and come up with a unified theory?
And so, I began to work toward a unified theory.
I picked up C.S. Lewis’ The Problem of Pain and read his chapter on Hell. I was astonished to find that he sort of comes to the same conclusion about Hell – that it is both destruction and everlasting punishment and separation. He then gives an analogy to describe how one could be conscious in a way and yet destroyed. He writes, “…people talk as if the ‘annihilation’ of a soul were intrinsically possible. In all our experience, however, the destruction of one thing means the emergence of something else. Burn a log, and you have gases, heat, and ash. … If a soul can be destroyed, must there not be a state of having been a human soul?” Well, this state of “having been a human soul…could it not very likely be conscious?
I then found that Greg Boyd follows much of what Lewis says with a little bit of his own ideas as well. He writes in Satan and the Problem of Evil that those who say “no” to God are sent into a reality of unreality he calls Das Nichtige or “the nothing.” He says that this is a reality from the inside to those who are experiencing it, but it is an unreality to everyone else. Therefore, they cease to exist, and yet remain conscious.
Although Boyd doesn’t use this idea in his book, this idea of a “reality of unreality” made me think immediately of dreams. In a dream, one does not experience true reality, but to the person dreaming it is very “real.” It is “real” from the inside, but unreal without. A couple of movies that have been based around this idea are The Matrix and Vanilla Sky, both excellent movies in my opinion. Matrix says that the world that we see is a kind of dream that is imposed upon us by a kind of artificial intelligence. Vanilla Sky is about a guy who chooses to spend eternity in a kind of dream state in which his desires are fulfilled…that desire being Penelope Cruz. These “dreams” are “real” from the inside, but not to those awake.
I explored this idea further, going over all the biblical texts that deal with the fate of the wicked. What I discovered was that Sheol – which is the Intermediate state, or the “state of being dead” – and Hell are strikingly similar in terms of the type of existence the wicked experience. And this type of existence is remarkably similar to the state of dreaming.
First of all let’s look at Sheol. Sheol is talked about in the Old Testament and is translated “Hades” in the New Testament. It is often referred to as the “intermediate state” or the “state of existence between death and the resurrection.” Both the righteous and the unrighteous go to Sheol, so Sheol cannot be equated with Hell. The wicked endure a state of unrest and misery in Sheol. If you invested your entire life and hope in wealth and power, Sheol is miserable because all power and wealth is worth nothing there. The kind of death you have is also related to a person’s experience in Sheol. If you died at the hand of your enemy, Sheol was miserable. If you died knowing that you were without any descendants, Sheol was miserable. But if you died peacefully, lived a long life, and lived righteously in the eyes of the Lord, your experience in Sheol was not unpleasant. Sheol was not something that the righteous Hebrews looked forward to because God is the God of the living, not the dead. But neither was it something they feared. As the hope of the resurrection grew better, so did the experience of the righteous.
So then, when we die, and until the resurrection and judgment we go to a state (not a place) of existence in Sheol, much like a dream. The inhabitants of Sheol are called the “Rephaim,” the “shades.” They are characterized as weak and helpless. It is not reality, it is a shadow of reality…much like a dream.
Now, when you look at the experience of those who go to Hell, it is much the same scenario as the unrighteous who go to Sheol or Hades. There is actually not the word “Hell” in the Greek Bible at all. The words used are “Gehenna,” “Lake of fire,” “outer darkness,” and “the second death.” “Hades” is not “Hell” in Christian tradition, it is the NT extension of Sheol. Those who go to Hell die a tragic death (i.e. by “fire”), and thus are miserable throughout eternity. They are also deprived of the presence of God, without hope life. In fact, the only real difference between the Hell and Sheol is that only the unrighteous go to Hell, God sends the unrighteous to Hell by throwing them into the Lake of Fire after the judgment, and it is eternal – they won’t be raised again for another judgement. Look through all the scriptures referring to Hell, and when it comes to any concrete description of it, these are the only differences between Sheol (a.k.a. “the first death”) and Hell (a.k.a. “the second death”).
And so Hell, “the Second Death,” is essentially the eternal state of being dead. Hell is “death.” To understand Hell, we must understand death.
Systematic theologian Stanley Grenz says that death is ultimately the loss of community. God’s Creation was for the purpose of Community. Death destroys community. Hell, as separation, is also the loss of community with both God and man (as opposed to popular notions that it will be one big party where you will see all of your unrighteous friends). Sleep also destroys community. A dream is not a reaction with other souls, it is a solitary experience.
Death is referred to as “sleep” in both the Old and New Testaments. Just a quick search on the word “sleep” brought these results: Ps. 13.3; Jer 51.39, 57 “they [the wicked] will sleep a perpetual sleep and not wake up.”; Dan 12.2 “Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.” It’s interesting that many times in the scriptures, sleeping is looked at with contempt. They tell people to “Wake up.” And in the NT we have John 11.11, 13; 1 Cor 11.30; and 15.51 which says “we will not all sleep, but shall be changed.”
Consider this. As I mentioned a moment ago, the type of life and death a person experiences determines their experience of being dead. A person who goes to Sheol in unrest experiences unrest in Sheol. The same is true of sleep and dreams. My psychology textbook by Wayne Weiten reads, “Though dreams seem to belong in a world of their own, what people dream about is affected by what is going on in their lives. If you’re struggling with financial problems, worried about an upcoming exam, or sexually attracted to a classmate, these themes may very well show up in your dreams.”
Likewise in the experience of Sheol, the type of life you live while awake is related to the type of rest you experience when asleep. Often, when you go to sleep thinking about a certain thing, you will dream about that thing. Likewise, when a rich and prideful man who invested his life in wealth and power dies, he realizes that everything he worked for is now lost, and so he experiences torment in death. Also, when the wicked die by being consumed by fire, they experience an eternity of unrest. Their torment while alive echoes in their minds throughout eternity.
It is interesting to note that the activity of the brain during REM sleep (the stage of sleep in which you dream) is equal to the activity of the brain during wakefulness. Weiten writes, “This pairing of deep sleep with ‘wide awake’ brain waves is a paradox that continues to leave scientists perplexed.” It is the same case with those who experience Hell – they are in eternal slumber, eternal death, and yet are “wide awake.”
Weiten also took note of the fact that “Typically dreams are very self-centered; people dream mostly about themselves.” The key characteristic of the wicked is that they are self-centered, they live for themselves and heed not to the decrees of the Lord. In Hell, the wicked finally have what they have always wanted, a reality in which the self is everything.
Although Martin Luther held to the idea of death as soul sleep, most theologians today (such as Grenz) dismiss this as 1st century euphemism, a less offensive way to say “death.” But the evidence, I think, points to something much more than mere euphemism. Dreams to the primitive cultures are very important. Weiten writes, “…in Western cultures dreams are largely written off as insignificant, meaningless meanderings of the unconscious. In many non-western cultures, however, dreams are viewed as important sources of information about oneself, about the future, or about the spiritual world. Although no culture confuses dreams with waking reality, many view events in dreams as another type of reality that may be just as important, or perhaps even more important then, events experienced while awake.”
Dreams are highly regarded in the Old and New Testaments. God communicates through dreams to people more than 30 times throughout the scripture. When you get a chance, look up all the references to sleep and dreams in the Bible, and you will be amazed at how seriously it is taken. To say that “sleep is a mere euphemism for death” is not very credible because sleep and dreams were taken very seriously in these cultures.
The evidence that Hell is eternal death, and that the death is like an eternal dream or nightmare is overwhelming to me. And although I’m but a theological peon, I wish to challenge theologians to at least consider this evidence because it opens to door to explanations of a number of things even beyond Hell, but especially to the question, “How can God be loving and send people to be tortured by fire in Hell for eternity?”
If the second death is like an eternal dream…each dream will be different according to the deeds done in the flesh. Most theologians agree that there will be differing levels of punishment in Hell just as there will be differing levels of reward in heaven. Whatever their torment is, it is what they have brought upon themselves by their deeds, and their punishment will be just. I think the Traditionalists are right when they say, “We must just trust that God will do whatever is just.” But an eternal “nightmare” seems to be easier for us to digest than an eternity of physical torture. It is a paradox in that the torment is not real, but yet it is real. It is real from the inside.
And if there are levels of punishment, those who had never heard the Gospel but lived a good life will very likely not have an eternity of torment. They may experience torment, but they may not. It is possible that their death could be a neutral experience that is not unpleasant. It could be that their eternal dream would be neutral or perhaps even semi-pleasant. You see, the possibilities are truly infinite, just as God and eternity is infinite.
I do not suggest that the second death is “not so bad after all.” It is unreality. There exists no fellowship and no real experience of life. One who dies the second death never fulfills what they were created to be. It is not something to be intentionally sought after, whatever the experience may be. Life of fellowship with God is the ultimate reality, the ultimate joy, the greatest possible destination. Christians should see this and urge all of humanity toward this end, not towards death.
Again, this is only a theory, the best I have to offer, not the best absolutely – although it has yet to be contradicted among those I’ve shared it with. I hope this helps you in your understanding of Hell, and perhaps you will remember this when someone asks you about how a loving God could allow there to be Hell.
Above all, remember that a Loving God never intended for us to go to Hell. In our selfishness, we chose Hell. We were trapped within the gates of sin and death. But wait, God died too. He who was without sin dwelled in death with us…and broke open the gates so that we are no longer trapped in death. But we have to walk through the gate, the narrow gate, to enter into life abundantly. And that, I pray, we all will.
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