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lock
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 701

Posted 12/15/2004 8:06 AM (GMT -6)

Lomman-

Your post makes sense except for the fact that later in Ephesians Paul tells us that we wrestle not with flesh and blood but with principalities, powers, rulers of the darkness of this world, spiritual wickedness in high places.

His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.

lock
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 701

Posted 12/15/2004 8:09 AM (GMT -6)

His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.

Lomman
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2004
Total Posts : 14

Posted 12/15/2004 10:52 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Your post makes sense except for the fact that later in Ephesians Paul tells us that we wrestle not with flesh and blood but with principalities, powers, rulers of the darkness of this world, spiritual wickedness in high places.

Lock,

I agree that we still wrestle with these rebel angelic powers (I believe this is all apart of our being placed in the heavenly places with Christ, because this is where the battle is being waged), but my point was that in Eph 4:8 Paul is alluding to the victory Christ won for us in principle (but which has not yet been fully realized, and won't be until he returns). We are living in the already/not yet between Christ's first and second coming. I don't believe this "wrestling" has to do with our new status "in Christ," (there is nothing they can do to take that away from us, as long as we remain "in Christ" they cannot accuse us before God). Instead, it deals with our daily struggle with temptation as well as the wicked influence they hold over the world (that may be responsible for much of the suffering and injustices, etc.) which we must confront with prayer and Christ-like love. The battle still rages for us, but our victory in Christ is certain because of what he accomplished for us through his death and resurrection, and we can stand confident in this.

Regards,
Lomman

"He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to promote justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?" Micah 6:8

lock
Registered Member

Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 701

Posted 12/20/2004 8:35 AM (GMT -6)

Lomman-

I agree with you that it seems more plausible, that the verse in question would speak of Christ parading His victory of Satan and principalities and powers as opposed to leading a host of saints from the "so-called" paradise of Hades.

Just other food for thought, I have read others who have drawn the conclusion based on the original context of Psalm. 68 that the "captivity" spoken of here is that bondage of the law, which Jesus took captive, thus freeing us from the law of sin and death. Verse 17 of Psalm 68 speaks of Mount Sinai making the connection with the law.

His achievement are we, being created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God makes ready beforehand, that we should be walking in them.

Lomman
Registered Member

Date Joined Oct 2004
Total Posts : 14

Posted 12/21/2004 9:41 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Just other food for thought, I have read others who have drawn the conclusion based on the original context of Psalm. 68 that the "captivity" spoken of here is that bondage of the law, which Jesus took captive, thus freeing us from the law of sin and death. Verse 17 of Psalm 68 speaks of Mount Sinai making the connection with the law.

Thanks Lock, that's pretty cool. And it kinda ties in with the Colossians passage as well - so it could have reference to both the "law of sin and death" and the accusing, oppressive "powers" Paul speaks of. Works for me! Smile

Lomman

"He has told you, O man, what is good; and what does the LORD require of you but to promote justice, and to love kindness, and to walk humbly with your God?" Micah 6:8

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