Open Theism Discussion Board

Open Theism Discussion Board > Public Forums > Let’s solve the problem of evil > (No Subject)

Forum Quick Jump

[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> | Show Newest Post First ]

Gerry Attrick
Registered Member

Date Joined Dec 2003
Total Posts : 114

Posted 1/5/2005 5:17 AM (GMT -6)

Part 1 (http://www.crosswalk.com/news/weblogs/mohler/?cal=go&adate=1%2F3%2F2005)

Part 2 (http://www.crosswalk.com/news/weblogs/mohler/?cal=go&adate=1%2F4%2F2005)

I know that everything God does will endure forever; nothing can be added to it and nothing taken from it. God does it so that men will revere him.

Whatever is has already been,
and what will be has been before;
and God will call the past to account.
And I saw something else under the sun:
In the place of judgment—wickedness was there,
in the place of justice—wickedness was there.
I thought in my heart,
“God will bring to judgment
both the righteous and the wicked,
for there will be a time for every activity,
a time for every deed" (Eccl 3:14-19; NIV).

An aspect of worshiping the God who has revealed himself through the Bible is to ascribe calamities to God. Those who wrote Scripture did so.

O LORD God Almighty, who is like you?
You are mighty, O LORD, and your faithfulness surrounds you.
You rule over the surging sea;
when its waves mount up, you still them (Psalm 89:8-9; NIV).

God's ruling over the surging sea is not seen merely in his calming of the sea but in the surging itself.

Laika
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433

Posted 1/5/2005 5:28 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by Gerry Attrick
You rule over the surging sea;
when its waves mount up, you still them (Psalm 89:8-9; NIV).

Um, riling up a calm sea is the opposite of stilling a surging sea.

HTH

Besides, we have an account of Jesus stilling a surging sea, which supports Psalm 89. But no account of Jesus riling up a still sea in order to wantonly destroy masses of people, indiscriminately.

Keep swinging for the fences, ojiisan.

inside you the time moves and she don't fade
the ghost in you she don't fade

spenlake
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050

Posted 1/5/2005 6:37 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by Laika

quote:
Originally posted by Gerry Attrick
You rule over the surging sea;
when its waves mount up, you still them (Psalm 89:8-9; NIV).

Um, riling up a calm sea is the opposite of stilling a surging sea.

HTH

Besides, we have an account of Jesus stilling a surging sea, which supports Psalm 89. But no account of Jesus riling up a still sea in order to wantonly destroy masses of people, indiscriminately.

Keep swinging for the fences, ojiisan.

“As for Me, behold, I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians so that they will go in after them; and I will be honored through Pharaoh and all his army, through his chariots and his horsemen. “Then the Egyptians will know that I am the LORD, when I am honored through Pharaoh, through his chariots and his horsemen.”

then the LORD overthrew the Egyptians in the midst of the sea. the waters returned and covered the chariots and the horsemen, even Pharaoh’s entire army that had gone into the sea after them; not even one of them remained.

Spen Lake

Laika
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433

Posted 1/5/2005 6:49 AM (GMT -6)

And how many of God's people died when God returned the water to where it was originally?

Returning a body of water to equilibrium is considered "stilling" the waters.

HTH

inside you the time moves and she don't fade
the ghost in you she don't fade

spenlake
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050

Posted 1/5/2005 8:15 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by Laika

And how many of God's people died when God returned the water to where it was originally?

Returning a body of water to equilibrium is considered "stilling" the waters.

HTH

God led an evil generation that He had chosen through the waters and covered those whose hearts He had hardened in the sea and put them to death. Those that came through the sea were only God's people because God chose them and called them by His name. He could have chosen the Egyptians as His people had He wished to. Instead He killed the Egyptians and saved the evil generation of Israel. His people were not more righteous than Egypt. They were just His. The difference between the Egyptians and Israel was God's choice, not their actions.

Then the LORD heard the sound of your words, and He was angry and took an oath, saying, ‘Not one of these men, this evil generation, shall see the good land which I swore to give your fathers, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh;

Spen Lake

Laika
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433

Posted 1/5/2005 8:22 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by spenlake

quote:
Originally posted by Laika

And how many of God's people died when God returned the water to where it was originally?

Returning a body of water to equilibrium is considered "stilling" the waters.

HTH

God led an evil generation that He had chosen through the waters and covered those whose hearts He had hardened in the sea and put them to death. Those that came through the sea were only God's people because God chose them and called them by His name. He could have chosen the Egyptians as His people had He wished to. Instead He killed the Egyptians and saved the evil generation of Israel. His people were not more righteous than Egypt. They were just His. The difference between the Egyptians and Israel was God's choice, not their actions.

Then the LORD heard the sound of your words, and He was angry and took an oath, saying, ‘Not one of these men, this evil generation, shall see the good land which I swore to give your fathers, except Caleb the son of Jephunneh;

spenlake, you're drifting......

the road is over there------------->

Big Smile

God's people spared from total destruction, what I've posited all along.

inside you the time moves and she don't fade
the ghost in you she don't fade

spenlake
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050

Posted 1/5/2005 8:39 AM (GMT -6)

These people perished because God was not pleased. He would have been justified in letting them perish in the sea.

For the sons of Israel walked forty years in the wilderness, until all the nation, that is, the men of war who came out of Egypt, perished because they did not listen to the voice of the LORD, to whom the LORD had sworn that He would not let them see the land which the LORD had sworn to their fathers to give us

Nevertheless, with most of them God was not well-pleased; for they were laid low in the wilderness.

Spen Lake

Laika
Registered Member

Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 2433

Posted 1/5/2005 8:46 AM (GMT -6)

spenlake, God's people walked through the water.

You've not disproved this. God always removes His people before He commits mass destruction.

And He doesn't commit mass destruction very often.

inside you the time moves and she don't fade
the ghost in you she don't fade

Yahweh Carleone
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 44

Posted 1/6/2005 4:12 AM (GMT -6)

I know where you live...

spenlake
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050

Posted 1/6/2005 4:45 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by Yahweh Carleone

I know where you live...

It seems to me that this "Jimmy Hoffa" god concept that you mock with is typical of the defective view that eliminates God's wrath and justice regarding all sin and attempts to ascribe judgment only to Satan in opposition to God's plans.

God does judge people.

God does kill people, even in the New Testament, even Christians.
It seems to me that Ananias and Sapphira as well as those who judged the Lords body unworthily could be considered Christians. God certainly continues to judge non-Christians and kill them when He chooses as we see when His angel killed Herod, the blashemer.

What is amazing is not that He kills blasphemers. What is amazing is that He doesn't immediately kill ALL blashemers. Most likely you could get up on a podium and do what Herod did and you wouldn't be struck down. Amazing, istn't it? We even know why God doesn't immediately killl all blesphemers (though they surely deserve it), because He is patient and wants them to repent and accept His offer of the gospel. This does not mean that we can be presumptious and demand His patience but we are simply grateful when He extends it.

Spen Lake

Yahweh Carleone
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 44

Posted 1/6/2005 4:53 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by spenlake

quote:
Originally posted by Yahweh Carleone

I know where you live...

It seems to me that this "Jimmy Hoffa" god concept that you mock with is typical of the defective view that eliminates God's wrath and justice regarding all sin and attempts to ascribe judgment only to Satan in opposition to God's plans.

God does judge people.

At the end of the age.

He lets the tares live among the wheat for fear of killing the wheat in the blunt process of killing the tares before the harvest, which is at the end of the age.

Instead of killing them all and sorting them out, as you believe, God removed His people before any mass destructions.

Spenlake, what size boot do you wear?

I may need a whole mixer at this rate...

spenlake
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050

Posted 1/6/2005 5:10 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Spen: It seems to me that this "Jimmy Hoffa" god concept that you mock with is typical of the defective view that eliminates God's wrath and justice regarding all sin and attempts to ascribe judgment only to Satan in opposition to God's plans.

God does judge people.

quote:
YHWH:

At the end of the age.

He lets the tares live among the wheat for fear of killing the wheat in the blunt process of killing the tares before the harvest, which is at the end of the age.

Instead of killing them all and sorting them out, as you believe, God removed His people before any mass destructions.

Spenlake, what size boot do you wear?

I may need a whole mixer at this rate...

Spen: Then your Hoffa god can:
- send mass destruction (only if he saves his own Christians out of it).
- sit helpless, at times, as Satan sends mass destructions and not remove His Christians out of it.
- wait helplessly as man's variable will chooses, Satans malevolent will does all that he can to destroy, and natures neutral? will afflicts people with devastation and only come and clean up at the end of the age.

You believe that God's self-proclaimed "hands off" policy that enables this devastation and affliction to occur randomly on His Christians and those "waiting to be saved" is understandable.

You see God as willing to trade all the misery and suffering imposed randomly upon masses of people (which we have seen in the tsunami) as worth it so that He can bask in the free-will love of those that feel Him as a nice God anyways.

Spen Lake

Yahweh Carleone
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 44

Posted 1/6/2005 5:22 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by spenlake
Then your Hoffa god can:

You don't know who Jimmy Hoffa was?

quote:

Jimmy Hoffa was the powerful and controversial leader of the Teamsters Union from 1957 to 1971. Often alleged to have ties to organized crime, Hoffa was finally convicted of fraud and jury tampering in 1964 and served four years in prison before his sentence was commuted by President Nixon. In 1975, while trying to regain power in the union, Hoffa disappeared from a restaurant parking lot in Bloomfield Hills, Michigan. He was widely assumed to have been killed by the Mafia. His body was never found, and in 1983 he was declared legally dead. In September of 2001, news reports claimed that DNA tests by the FBI had tied Hoffa to a car driven by his associate Charles O'Brien the day Hoffa disappeared -- suggesting that charges might still be brought in the case.

Hoffa was a victim of a mob hit. Like you believe the 150,000 were the victims of God's mob hit.

The picture is of Marlon Brando playing the mob boss Don Carleone in the Godfather epic.

"The breaking of fingers by God leads you to repentance"

spenlake
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050

Posted 1/6/2005 5:47 AM (GMT -6)

YHWH:"The breaking of fingers by God leads you to repentance"

Spen: The kindness of God is such that it is much better to have fingers broken and repent than to enter hell with my fingers intact. There are examples of men holding the God concept you are confessing. These men attribute the acts of God to a "satan" (adversary)instead of a loving God calling them to repent.

Men were scorched with fierce heat; and they blasphemed the name of God who has the power over these plagues, and they did not repent so as to give Him glory.

they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores; and they did not repent of their deeds.

Spen Lake

Yahweh Carleone
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 44

Posted 1/6/2005 5:52 AM (GMT -6)

quote:
Originally posted by spenlake

YHWH:"The breaking of fingers by God leads you to repentance"

Spen: The kindness of God is such that it is much better to have fingers broken and repent than to enter hell with my fingers intact. There are examples of men holding the God concept you are confessing. These men attribute the acts of God to a "satan" (adversary)instead of a loving God calling them to repent.

Men were scorched with fierce heat; and they blasphemed the name of God who has the power over these plagues, and they did not repent so as to give Him glory.

they blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores; and they did not repent of their deeds.

You realize that when you speak so pompously and conceitedly 'authoritatively', it's like spreading chum on the water, don't you?

I'm mocking your idea of God. The mob boss.

And as much as I disagree with your concept of God, I have never accused you of blasphemy or any of the other crap you and your determinist friends have railed on us.

You're getting teased, deal with it.

Yahweh Carleone
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 44

Posted 1/6/2005 5:58 AM (GMT -6)

Maybe a pompous, conceited "Open Letter" to your pastor would be in order.

spenlake
Registered Member

Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050

Posted 1/6/2005 6:01 AM (GMT -6)

My dear Laika,

You are ever welcome and right to mock "my" idea of God to the extent this idea is not the idea of God that He chose to reveal to us in the scriptures. I humbly bow to you and anyone else that "my" idea may be defective. However, I believe that the scriptures mean something and I (the paltry I that I am) find similarities between your concept and that of the men of Revelation. Gratefully to us both, I am not the judge. Moreove, because God doesn't usually immediately kill blashemers, the fact that you or I remain alive is no proof of the God concept we confess. We will have to wait until the chips are counted and we see Him face to face to know that.

Spen Lake

Forum Information

Currently it is Monday, November 09, 2026 2:03 PM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 97,718 posts in 6,040 threads.
In the last 3 days there were 0 new threads and 0 reply posts. View Active Threads

Need Support? | Forum Help Manual