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borg
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 324
| Posted 10/8/2003 11:50 AM (GMT -6) |   | It has been a long time since I have posted, for several reasons. But I thought I would stick my head up again. This is in regards to Boyd's discussion at the Quest last night at Bethel College on the problem of evil. Thank you Dr. Boyd for coming and sharing your thoughts. But after some consideration and thought, I had an idea to run past those of you who hold to Boyd's view.
My big problem with Boyd's argument is that he basically concluded last night that we cannot understand why evil exists. He began his argument with the story of a woman who experienced evil and yet was told that God was spinning it all and we can't exactly know His plan or will in this area. First, I would like to say I do believe this is a semi-copout, but at the same time, are we called to look for God and find Him in every bad situation? Or are we more so called to believe that He is there? Perhaps the former, I don't know. But Boyd also said that this didn't bring the woman to any comforting thought of God but rather of a monstourous God. He "submited" a different opinion to us and that was his basic fundamental thought of evil and that we don't know why it happens. I was curious as to whether or not this brought any more comfort to this woman? In my personal life I would assume that in some manner, God willing all this and that and realizing He still has the "whole world in the palm of His hand" doing all His good pleasure (Isa 46:10) is more comforting than an answer that seems so distant and almost transcendent.
So let me propose a quick thought on the "Problem" of evil. What if I were to say, there is no such thing, at least for the Chrisian. What if I were to say that evil didn't exist for the Christian. Now one might object, "What about my son/daughter who got shot... raped... beat up..." they obviously experienced evil, or did they? I think Romans 8:28ff plays a large role. We have this promise from God that He works all to the "good" of those who love Him. Perhaps, as John Piper might hold to, a Christian experiences a so called "evil" which is nothing but "good". And vice versa, the non-Chrsitian never experiences anything but evil. I was thinking and I concluded that the best thing that can happen to a non-Christian is to have the Gospel preached to them. Well even this, if accepted, means they are a believer, a good consequence, and if they reject it: doesn't that just add up damnation on their heads, for they have heard of God and His wonders yet deny the truth, Rom 1 and 2? So if this point can now be clearly seen, we no longer have a boggled up mess of the problem of evil, but a distinct line in which only the non-believer experiences evil, but he experiences evil ALL the time. One might retort back about my idea of common grace Matt 5:45ff. Yes they are experiencing good from God, but evil are the consequences which flow from rejecting a God. God's good can be over all His creation Ps 145, while at the same time the non-Christian experiences nothing but evil.
Just curious for some criticism and views on this as to whether or not it is coherent. Any input will be gladly recieved. Again this is just a short summary of some thoughts, if needed I can expand in more detail.
Thanks,
Grace and Peace,
Borg
"So it is a more glorious work of power to uphold a soul in a state of grace and holiness, and to carry it on till it is brought to glory, when there is so much sin remaining in the heart resisting, and Satan with all his might opposing, than it would have been to have kept manfrom falling at first, when Satan had nothing in man." Edwards | | Back to Top | | |
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Tiggers
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 219
| Posted 10/8/2003 1:08 PM (GMT -6) | | Borg asserts,
“What if I were to say, there is no such thing, at least for the Christian. What if I were to say that evil didn't exist for the Christian. Now one might object, "What about my son/daughter who got shot... raped... beat up..." they obviously experienced evil, or did they?”
Tigger’s Reply,
Hi, Borg! First, does your pseudonym refer to your assimilation, or does it refer to you assimilating others  (just hav’n fun, King’s Kid  ). Now, you proclaim that evil doesn’t exist for the Christian…hmmmm, but why? To this end, you posit Rom. 8:28ff, ok, open theist too, hold that God can take any situation and make good come out of it. No matter what evil lies behind it, God’s still working in that situation for the furthering of his kingdom.
Borg asserts,
“Perhaps, as John Piper might hold to, a Christian experiences a so called "evil" which is nothing but "good". And vice versa, the non-Christian never experiences anything but evil.
Tigger’s Reply,
First, please, if you will, define evil with regards to the above statement. Second, I see nothing as of yet to back up your proclamation, i.e., you have not supported your conclusion that states that the non-Christian experiences ONLY evil, & the Christian ONLY good! It may be helpful, at least for me, if you supported your conclusion/proclamation with it’s premises. Lastly, again if your statement is supported by Rom. 8:28ff your support doesn’t exegetically cut it, that is, it’s true that God can and does allow a particular evil, but this verse does not say that God is ordaining/determining the evil for her/his specific purposes. The Doc says it well (in my opinion), “whatever happens to us, God will work with us to bring a redemptive purpose out of the event. The evil event that happened to us or a loved one may indeed have had no higher purpose; it may have been ‘pointless.’ This is part of its evil. But we can be assured that God is able to bring good out of evil with unfathomable ingenuity. He does not will evil, but he can use it” (Satan and the Problem of Evil, 371).
Borg Asserts,
I was thinking and I concluded that the best thing that can happen to a non-Christian is to have the Gospel preached to them. Well even this, if accepted, means they are a believer, a good consequence, and if they reject it: doesn't that just add up damnation on their heads, for they have heard of God and His wonders yet deny the truth, Rom 1 and 2? So if this point can now be clearly seen, we no longer have a boggled up mess of the problem of evil, but a distinct line in which only the non-believer experiences evil, but he experiences evil ALL the time.
Tigger’s Reply,
Again please define what YOU mean by evil.
Warmly in Christ,
Tiggers
“The notion that God uses evils as a means to such higher goods is, … incompatible with the doctrine that he is omnipotent, and therefore does not need to use deplorable means to achieve his ends” (J.L. Mackie). | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 10/9/2003 12:26 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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