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selah
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1210
| Posted 5/4/2006 6:01 AM (GMT -6) |   | thanks everyone.
very helpful stuff.
sorry I don't have time to say more...
love,
selah
now, calling
mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeppppppppppppppphhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhiiiiiiii
 where art thou? | | Back to Top | | |
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Torkuda
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 34
| Posted 5/13/2006 4:11 PM (GMT -6) | | | Sovereign can indeed mean absolute power, but is rarely used to that extreme definition... in fact, unless we're talking about religious beliefs, its pretty much NEVER used in that fashion.
For instance, a "Sovereign" is a name for a human king.
State "Sovereignty" in the constitution refers to indepentant governing powers of the states
A king's sovereignty simply refers to his ability to rule the land he has dominion over.
I think the real question is actually, why does the usage of the word Sovereign suddenly change whenever addressing religious issues? | | Back to Top | | |
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rsirkel
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2002
Total Posts : 183
| Posted 5/14/2006 8:44 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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Torkuda
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 34
| Posted 5/14/2006 10:14 PM (GMT -6) | | There we can agree. I respect the context of scripture. No I do not respect what I see as avoiding some scriptures wilst looking only at those you're comfortable with, to the point where you'll even ignore the context of the scriptures you like.
In Psalm 139, it constantly references God searching in every version. As far as the Calvinist idea, only in some versions does it actually say all of David's days were forordained.
In Genesis 18, not only does God say He has to go and see what is happening in Soddom and Gomorrah, but has a full feldged negotation with Abraham as though He didn't know what was coming.
In Exodus 32 God condemns and declares He will destroy all of Isreal, but then listens to Moses and says He repents of His intention.
In Jeremiah 18, God said if he promised bad things, and people repented, He would relent, if He promised good, and people turned to wickedness, He will reconsider His blessing.
In the garden, in Matthew 26, Mark 14 and Luke 22, Jesus begged to be shown another way, Jesus being God in the flesh, determined there was not.
How are these the actions of a completely, without any limitation, Omnipresent, Omniscient and Omnipotent God?
Even a Calvinist would say that God plans the absolute best for us, but if He has no limitation, then truely there is no such thing as the best for us, only what God wants for us. How then can we take comfort in our suffering, knowing ultimately, it is not God who rescues, but truely, it is God who persecutes? Does it not tell us to take comfort, and what is, is for the best? | | Back to Top | | |
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rsirkel
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2002
Total Posts : 183
| Posted 5/20/2006 4:38 PM (GMT -6) | | Torkuda
Sorry to be so long in replying.
As I understand your reply, you are either questioning the Omni definitions regarding God. This because the scriptures you quoted as an example of your point, are not congruous with the Omni definitions of God's nature? Or you of the mind, what will be will be, a determinist? As your last question seemed to indicate. In any case then this board is a great place to work through some of your questions or see if your beliefs can stand.
Briefly, in my view scripture has to be understood as a story or narrative. I used to take the concordance approach and look up the words that I thought were important and try and get a deeper understanding with the Greek and Hebrew definitions. That didn't work and I really didn't grow in the knowledge of God. I ended up defensive about my perspective and not knowing really where I was located in the story of God. Systematic theology didn't help much regarding the questions of the nature of God and reality, unless you happen upon an unbiased theologian, but who knows who they are in the beginning of a students walk with God.
Covenant theology helps understand the context of the different accounts in scripture. For example, to see God acting or speaking within a covenant faithfulness
paradigm helps see how He intervenes for some and not for others, as one thread is questioning. Boyd's "Satan and the Problem of Evil" is very helpful. Have you read it?
I also like NT Wright and Richard Hays for getting the narrative approach and to begin understanding God's story.
I would like say more but I am still not quite sure if I understand the context from which you are speaking. If it is of interest to you how a Quaker can also be part reformed, part pentecostal, part open thiest, and part wine bibber. Visit my website at friendsrevival.org
Peace
Ron | | Back to Top | | |
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Torkuda
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2006
Total Posts : 34
| Posted 5/20/2006 5:20 PM (GMT -6) | | I don't know what my exact position is. This is why on my website (www.bibletruthseeker.com) I don't affiliate myself with any official denomination or theology.
Here are my core beliefs:
http://www.bibletruthseeker.com/My%20core%20beliefs.htm
On the omni words, yes I am quite opposed to them and their dominance http://www.bibletruthseeker.com/omni_words.htm
The reason I'm here on this forum is two fold. I'm first trying to sharpen my argueing skills since I really want to get my message out.
Second, I'm holding out that someone eventually listens enough to offer help themselves, or show me where I can find it. Amongst my family and friends, I am alone in my beliefs on the Bible. I know it is unwise to remain so. I'm hoping either someone out there has found the same things I have and is willing to help me in further study, or at least someone is willing to look at the research I've done and help me figure out where to go from here, taking the journey with me. | | Back to Top | | |
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rsirkel
Registered Member
Date Joined May 2002
Total Posts : 183
| Posted 5/21/2006 12:49 PM (GMT -6) | | Hi Torkuda
Thanks for the honest reply. Probably most that post here as having embraced the "future does not exist" find themselves in the minority in their worship fellowships except for the Minnesota group. I agree, don't forsake the gathering.
The bible has both the good and the bad recorded but that does not mean the whole record is the "gospel". The gospel is powerful to save, the law is the knowledge of sin. Though the law is good it has served its purpose. Being truthful about the situation of man may not completely entail the whole truth as to the length and depths of the mercy and grace of God.
"Echoes of Scripture in the Letters of Paul" by Hays is a good source to help re-read scripture through a different lens.
I trust your online fellowship will grow fruitful and be beneficial to yourself and others.
Peace
Ron | | Back to Top | | |
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Clete
Registered Member
Date Joined Dec 2007
Total Posts : 35
| Posted 4/26/2008 10:57 PM (GMT -6) | | To say that God is sovereign means simply that there is no higher authority in existence.
All authority belongs to and is delegated by God alone and He has the absolute ability to recall any delegated authority at will but will not do so if such action would be unjust or is in some other way inconsistent with the current description of His character. | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 5/5/2008 5:58 PM (GMT -6) | | A definition that I really like, is, "Our world belongs to God!"
Our World Belongs to God
<script language=javascript>
ac_therest[ac_therest.length] = "697";
</script>
As followers of Jesus Christ, living in this world—which some seek to control, but which others view with despair—we declare with joy and trust: Our world belongs to God!
—from the Preamble
We grant permission to download for personal use, a ministry setting, or classroom use provided that: no more than 100 copies are made; the material is distributed for free; and the copies include this credit line: © 1987, CRC Publications, Grand Rapids MI. www.crcna.org.
It's in the back of our gray church hymnal.
CHECK IT OUT, SELAH!
- Bruce
(o) | | Back to Top | | |
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