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selah
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1210
| Posted 2/12/2004 4:37 PM (GMT -6) |   | Ok, how do we make sense of this again?
Acts 5:1-11
1 But a man named Ananias, with his wife Sapphira, sold a piece of property, 2 and kept back some of the price for himself, with his wife's full knowledge, and bringing a portion of it, he laid it at the apostles' feet. 3 But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land? 4 "While it remained unsold, did it not remain your own? And after it was sold, was it not under your control? Why is it that you have conceived this deed in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God." 5 And as he heard these words, Ananias fell down and breathed his last; and great fear came over all who heard of it. 6 The young men got up and covered him up, and after carrying him out, they buried him. 7 Now there elapsed an interval of about three hours, and his wife came in, not knowing what had happened. 8 And Peter responded to her, "Tell me whether you sold the land for such and such a price?" And she said, "Yes, that was the price." 9 Then Peter said to her, "Why is it that you have agreed together to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test? Behold, the feet of those who have buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out as well." 10 And immediately she fell at his feet and breathed her last, and the young men came in and found her dead, and they carried her out and buried her beside her husband. 11 And great fear came over the whole church, and over all who heard of these things.
"When we acknowledge that all of life is sacred and that each act is an act of choice and therefore sacred, then life is a sacred dance lived consciously each moment. When we live at this level, we participate in the creation of a better world."
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John Earp
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2002
Total Posts : 1715
| Posted 2/12/2004 7:36 PM (GMT -6) | | quote:
Originally posted by Selah
Well John, I'm thinking about the pictures we see of God's wrath, justice, and holiness in the OT and how this NT example is similar. It just seems a bit odd that this is the same God (Jesus) who is also love, forgiveness, compassion and mercy personified... ya know?
{I know I've read some stuff about it, but I forget. :)
love
selah
Okay, thanks. I think I see what you're saying. It seems at least possible that during Christ's public ministry before his death and resurrection, things were in a sort of state of temporary suspension with respect to wrath, judgment, etc. (if I may use that terminology). It is true that we don't know of any accounts of Jesus ever striking people dead during the days of his earthly ministry (however, we do have many examples of some very condemnatory, judgemental and even wrathful statements made by Him towards those who were hardened in their sin).
However, after his resurrection, we see (in Acts 5, for instance) God/Christ/Holy Spirit striking someone dead for lying, and we also see in Revelation where Jesus threatens to do the same thing to those in one of his churches who refused to repent of their idolatry and fornication (Rev. 2 & 3).
I would like to hear what others may have to say on this subject, but for now that is my best guess as to why this seems inconsistent with the Jesus of the Gospels. Perhaps it could be true that the lack of this type of judgment in the Gospels is attributable to the nature of his Incarnation, as a type of judgment not available to Jesus prior to his resurrection and glorification.
Good question. I honestly don't know all the answers to this right now, but I really hope others have something to say here.
"The Discovery of new truth will modify old views and opinions, and there is perhaps no end to this process with finite minds in any world." Charles G. Finney, Systematic Theology.
revivaltheology.net
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1Heart
Registered Member
Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 1128
| Posted 2/12/2004 9:19 PM (GMT -6) | | [quote]Originally posted by Selah
Well John, I'm thinking about the pictures we see of God's wrath, justice, and holiness in the OT and how this NT example is similar. It just seems a bit odd that this is the same God (Jesus) who is also love, forgiveness, compassion and mercy personified... ya know?
{I know I've read some stuff about it, but I forget. :)
love
selah
Selah,
There I go - jumping into water that is probably over my head (again). I'm not a seminarian, nor a theolgian - just an earnest believer. BUT...I recently read (in fact within just the last few chapters in Satan and the Problem of Evil) that there is an equal potential in people to do good as there is to do evil and so - the free will that we are given is a "time limited offer" so to speak and once we have reached that point - where we are doing more evil than we had potential for good (I think this is getting murky) that God may step in and even "pull the plug" and that is totally in keeping with His character. We know for sure that His character doesn't change and we have enough of scripture and experience to show us that without a doubt - so obviously there are reasons beyond what we are able to see for this passage. Take Job for an example. If we weren't clued in to the prologue, we would still be in the dark. There is so much that goes on in the heavenlies that we are unaware of. That may also be the case here. Beyond human free will, there are other powers that are involved. God also knows the heart and perhaps these two had really just come to the point where their capacity for good was exceeded by their capacity for evil.
I am really reaching here. Perhaps I should ask for forgiveness in advance and put myself at your mercy. Maybe there might be some shred of sense in this post! If not, I'll go incognito. 
God Bless,
Jo-Anne
"Sometimes all we can do is go back to the character of God, and drop anchor there."
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feelinahole
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754
| Posted 2/13/2004 4:32 AM (GMT -6) | | | Since I don't put God into an "either/or" situation I don't see the problem with this verse. Don, are you suggesting Peter struck them dead? You are also ignoring the fact that Peter said they lied to the Holy Ghost AND Paul states that liars will not inherit the kingdom of God. So I don't think you'll be seeing them in heaven. | | Back to Top | | |
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feelinahole
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 754
| Posted 2/13/2004 11:29 AM (GMT -6) | | | Don: the scripture has nothing to do with your lying, so your statement is irrelevant to the issue (I suppose this may be your way of saying we shouldn't make a judgment...yet the Bible does indeed make a judgment and thats why they died). I would suggest though that your lying is a matter between you and God and not something to discuss on this board. But the simple fact is they were judged because they lied to God and, being liars, could not inherit the kingdom of God (which scripture also states). Regardless, it almost defies logic that God would judge them with death and then they would somehow inherit the kingdom of God (almost, that is). | | Back to Top | | |
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