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Laika,
Perhaps you could clarify. It seems you are talking about 2 different things: changes of state, and logic. I would think that state changes are temporal by definition, but logic could be atemporal. Here is a logic example that is SPATIAL and not TEMPORAL, i.e. it deals with my location at one instant of time.

a-->b If I am in Minneapolis, I am in Minnesota.
b-->c If I am in Minnesota, I am in the USA.
a-->c If I am in Minneapolis, I am in the USA.

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You're correct, those states can all exist concurrently but I was talking about the PROCESS of reasoning.

If I am in Minnesota (a-->b) AND
if Minnesota is in the USA (b-->c) THEREFORE
I am in the USA (a-->c)

It took you a duration of time to reason from a-->b to a-->c didn't it?

The a-->b and b-->c HAVE to occur before the a-->c in order for you to say "therefore" a-->c. Therefore a-->c CANNOT occur before a-->b and b-->c can they? Logic is a reasoning "process", the "process" is what takes duration. Another way of looking at it is, causes MUST come BEFORE their events. The reasoning process is ordered as well.

If God can hold "Laika is NOT married" and "Laika is married" as both concurrently being TRUE, that is a contradiction. The "eternal now" God holds ALL truth values of all propositions concurrently, which is illogical and a contradiction. Which is why I reject the "eternal now" view of God.

Moving from state "Laika is NOT married" to state "Laika is married" takes a duration, no matter how small, it's still a duration and it's NECESSARY for those two states to NOT concurrently exist. That is time. And it moves forward. Else causes occur after their events.




"Follow her down to worship some God, who never speaks to me, I wonder it that's odd, then she says, 'You're never listening'"

Edited by - Laika on 07/06/2003 11:25:48 PM

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In reading over this thread so far, I realize my original post may have been ambiguous. What I meant was, "It seems to me that duration can only be defined as duration if it can be measured." As to the issue of creation bringing about a change in time and/or existence, yes, Padgett says precisely that this is the distinction he is trying to make--God is in pure duration, while creation is in "measured time," which is in fact a subset of pure duration. Again, it seems to me Padgett is making a distinction without a difference.

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John, I contend that duration is necessary, the measurement of it is not. Duration is necessary for causes MUST precede their event. Duration is necessary for state changes to be logical. Duration is necessary for the "process" of logic. Duration is necessary for language, "before", "after", "during", etc. I don't think these really need measurement, just "sequence".



"Follow her down to worship some God, who never speaks to me, I wonder it that's odd, then she says, 'You're never listening'"