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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 516
| Posted 6/28/2001 5:25 PM (GMT -6) |   |
Mephi2K
06/09/01 7:29 PM
Speculative Demonology: Check this One Out, Y'all!
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Yo. This one's for everyone. Pure speculation time. I will assume that many people here believe in the existence of Satan and demons. Here's something. What do you think are the capabilities of a demon-afflicted (possessed) or demon-affiliated (necromancers and witches) person? Can they do things that would be considered preternatural or just plain weird? Flight? Superhuman strength? Actual magical ability? What do you think?
The reason why I ask this question is simple. IF demons and Satan do exist, I think we'd be REALLY stupid just to think that demons just make people quiver like a crack fiend in withdrawal. Surely, there may be more deliberate exhibition of demonic power. So, think about it and tell me what you think?
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
Triskal
06/09/01 10:24 PM
RE: Speculative Demonology: Check this One Out, Y'all!
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I've heard documented cases of people who were possessed being able to over-power a great deal of men. I'm not sure exactly how this happens, perhaps the demon simply exercises the full capable strength of a person, much like when a mother struggles to save a child trapped under a heavy object and displays strength beyond her normal abilities. I've also heard of healing performed through the art of white magic. The results, however, lead to some very strong spiritual attacks on the one who was healed. I'm certainly not qualified to come up with an accurate interpretation as to how these situations would relate to your questions, and if, in fact, they are the direct results of demonic possession. Hopefully there are others on this board who know more about this than I do.
In His Grip,
Matt
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
Still_unsure
06/10/01 6:21 AM
RE: Speculative Demonology: Check this One Out, Y'all!
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Hi Mephi:
Have you read "The Screwtape Letters"? It makes you realize how insidious the demonic are in their manipulation of people. Not necessarily with demonstrations of power but with subtlety. It'll give you a newfound respect for your adversary.
Rob
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
trosie
06/11/01 12:08 AM
RE: RE: Speculative Demonology: Check this One Out, Y'all!
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Triskal said: "I've also heard of healing performed through the art of white magic"
This made me think about the scripture that warns us to be on guard because many false prophets will do miracles claiming to be doing it in the name of Jesus... Obviously this is telling us that Satan gives power to people to do super-natural things just as God gives power to perform miracles in His name.
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
glamdring777
06/11/01 12:11 AM
I do, I do, I do, believe in spooks
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At times we must put on the armor of God and stand against the enemy. Jesus is our savior, in that he frees us from evil. Jesus' deliverance ministry was central to the gospel. "The reason the Son of God appreared was to destroy the devils work." (1 Jn 3:8)
Genuine deliverance is healing and freedom through God's truth and love. We have authority in Christ over demons. We can bind them before deliverance so that they are not able to harm any of the participants. The reason so many turn to practitioner's of magic for help is because so many of the churches don't have deliverance ministries. However going to a white witch, witch doctor, or shaman for deliverance is like trying to win money in a shell game from the guy that just ripped you off.
There are occult spirits, spirits of sin, spirits of trauma, and familiar spirits. I haven't heard of demons causing anyone to fly, however they have made a few people think they could fly. ouch.
If you have a demon dogging you because you couldn't master your flesh and became entrenched in habitual sin, being delivered will be the easy part. The tough stuff is overcoming the flesh by the power of the spirit and knowing your authority in Christ to keep yourself free.
If you are oppressed by demons that feed on the woundedness of some sort of abuse or trauma that you were afflicted by, you will need inner healing, or they will just come back after deliverance.
Familiar spirits need to be unmasked, their deceptions exposed.
Spirits that have been in families for generations that have made seemingly beneficious contributions to the family can become a source of pride, a grounding for tradition, or a sacred cow.
You may be harrassed by demons simply for fighting the good fight, or saving souls. It is possible to have an assignement made against you, such as a curse. You can break them off of yourself as soon as you notice them, or be oblivious and and get used to being frustrated.
Having said all that, there is no need to panic, or see a demon under every bush. We need balance in all things. We need not fear them, for God's love has given us power over them, we need only be aware of their devices, and not be shy about kicking a little demon butt.
demon dicer
glamdring
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
might-be-don
06/11/01 9:15 AM
RE: I do, I do, I do, believe in spooks
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I wonder if much of the stuff attributed to demonic activity is in the same category as RevivalTheology's understanding of much of today's "miracles" of God.
People are pretty clever you know.
don
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
BBBCanada
06/11/01 4:35 PM
RE: RE: I do, I do, I do, believe in spooks
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might-be-don said:
“I wonder if much of the stuff attributed to demonic activity is in the same category as RevivalTheology's understanding of much of today's "miracles" of God.”
If I understand what you are saying, you are probably answering Meph’s question that demonic activity doesn’t happen on a scale of “normal daily, occurances?”
But I wonder how much of our Western secularistic cultural mentality is shaping our understanding of the “miraculous” in the West? We don’t expect the miraculous so we really are not attuned to it. We seem to be able to get along fine without God or the supernatural. Yet, I suppose if we go to other nations of the world where some form of spiritualism is a part of national life, does it occur all that much more?
Then again, it seems as if God is not in the habit of “disrupting/suspending natural order or laws” as D.A. Carson and other theologians have pointed out since then the miraculous would cease to be miraculous.
Bottom line for me is that I don’t rule out the supernatural either way. But the question of the supernatural’s normalcy is a moot point.
Brandon
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
glamdring777
06/11/01 11:45 PM
Oh the spectacle
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Is meph looking for bodily fluids that look like green oatmeal being ejected in projective manners?
Let me oblige. Demons can cause you to fall down, throw up, and various things in between.
For the afflicted:
Demons can manifest themselves in visions or apparitions, unlike angels who can go beyond this into a more substantially human form.
Demons can tempt you. They also like to taunt. Some say that they have had incessant voices in their heads that say dispicable things.
They get agitated in the presence of God, abhor praise, and cause avoidance of all that is holy.
On the rare occassions that a person becomes almost completely 'possessed' they can use your vocal cords and take control of your body to do violence.
For the most part they decieve people and draw them into evil so they can enjoy it vicariously. Some feed on woundedness, or on sin.
Occult spirits disguise themselves as good spirits offering healing, assistance, and knowledge, but it always comes with a price; bondage to evil.
For the demon affiliated:
The practitioner's of magic in all their diversity, have one thing in common and that is commerce with the evil spirits. From white magic, through idol worship, to outright satanism deals have been stuck, bartering has been done. Just as Christians pray and bless, and see answers and results, those who traffice with spirits pray and curse and see answers and results.
We use the gifts of the Spirit to fight the enemy. They use counterfeit gifts to deceive and take captives.
glamdring
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
glamdring777
06/11/01 11:50 PM
Like the miraculous?
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I guess demons have a bit in common with the miraculous since they are in fact supernatural beings, but beyond that, as to their being more or less rare, I'm with Brandon, it depends on the context.
You know how people say that true Christains can't be demon possessed? Well that's because Christ is our deliverer, he is our healer, our saviour etc. I mean I seriously doubt you can be in deep relationship with God for decades and still be demonized. (As opposed to simply harrassed by them) The Lord's prayer itself says, lead us not into temptation and deliver us from evil. As we draw nearer to God we are purified. The demons have no rights to us, no footholds to grab, no evil to enjoy, lots of holiness that they detest, we don't make very good eatin' God heals our woundedness as we spend time in his presense, he gives us the power to overcome the flesh and be set free from sin.
In the Christian community demonization should be a rarity. Outside the safety of the fellowship of the body of Christ is where you are fair game. In the world we have children raised in horrible wickedness and abuse. Some have parents that are satanists or witches. Those are the contexts where demonization is less rare.
Back in Luther's time they were still doing baptism and exorcism at the same time. It's the baby Christians who come in to the fold fresh out of the world that are afflicted.
Christ says don't lay hands too quickly on any man. That is because if the person is not a Christian they will not have the power to stay free. If they don't have faith in their authority through Christ they won't be able to defend themselves. If they don't have healing, the foothold will still be there. If they don't repent and renounce sin, they will be bound again.
don't forget to bless your families
glamdring
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
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