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Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 516
| Posted 6/28/2001 5:46 PM (GMT -6) |   | Message
chiam
05/07/01 9:06 AM
Is God responsible for floods, tornadoes and earthquakes?
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How would those who hold Open Theism respond to the questions about "acts of God"? 1)Does God control the weather (rain, wind, etc...)?
2)If not, does he have foreknowledge of such events like a tornado going through a certain city?
Posted Originally From: Open Theism Information Site
Mephi2K
05/07/01 9:28 AM
Great Question
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Hello, chiam! Now, THAT is an excellent question. I've been reading the Psalms and there seems to be considerable agreement in them that the Adonai Elohim indeed has SOVEREIGN power over nature. I'm glad that you asked this question. I'd like to see the answer from any open view theists on this.
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
Triskal
05/07/01 10:42 AM
RE: Is God responsible for floods, tornadoes and earthquakes?
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Haha that's a pretty debatable question, considering what the possible answers would imply. For instance, if God does control the weather then why are so many people killed in tornadoes, earthquakes, etc? If he doesn't control the weather then how did he destroy the whole earth with a flood back in Genesis? My theory would be that God has the capability of controlling the weather, much like he has the capability of foreknowing every freewill decision that man will make, but he chooses not to have that control for the most part. There are times when God does, and almost needs to control it, (i.e. the flood) but for the most part he leaves it to the control of the laws of nature. I'm not sure where Boyd and the other open theists hold on this one, but that's just my opinion.
In His Grip,
Matt
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
writerdad
05/07/01 11:35 AM
RE: Is God responsible for floods, tornadoes and earthquakes?
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Hasker deals with that area for open theists in "Searching For An Adequate God," which is a debate between Process and Free Will Theists (good book to pick up just so you can know the differences bewteen the two). He also discusses this issue briefly in God, Time And Knowledge. In it he agrees with Michael Peterson, whose book Evil And The Christian God is worth picking up (although I'm not sure you can still get it).
As an open theist, it is MY view (but it should be noted that open theism is new and there are a variety of opinions about it), that with the entering of sin the world was polluted and certain things happen, such as floods, etc., because of that and, by and large, God allows the natural things to occur, and that he uses them in his wisdom and grace. But this is a big subject, one that even determinists such as Mephi have disagreed upon. John 17:3 Harold
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
pneumatika
05/07/01 2:04 PM
RE: Is God responsible for floods, tornadoes and earthquakes?
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Is all natural evil gratuitous?
Discussion of this question is actually how Mephi and I met.
If it means anything, I still think what the lowly grad student Mephi said made a great deal more sense of the biblical witness than what the academics at this session were embracing.
Meph, do you remember how the respondant remarked that he was leaning towards process?
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
writerdad
05/07/01 2:21 PM
RE: Great Question
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Mephi: I did want to make a comment on your answer about reading in the Psalms. I have always hesitated when reading the Psalms to use them in the area of theology. Using the Psalms to make a theological point, in my view, is weak.
For instance, Psalm 91 says in verse 10 that if you make the Most High your refuge no harm will come to you? Does that happen? No, for Christians are presecuted and killed all the time. I think Phillip Yancey makes a good point in his book "The Bible That Jesus Read," that the Pslams seem to be songs that depict how the Psalmist was feeling at that particular time and should not be taken literally. For instance, when David was angry at his enemies, he wrote that he hopes that their babies were dashed against the rocks. Now I do not believe that David actually wanted that to happen. The Psalms were prayers that depicted states that we all are in. But I do not think they were meant to be theological portraits of how things actually are. Just some thoughts...John 17:3 Harold
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
glamdring777
05/07/01 10:58 PM
who's stormin'?
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I agree with Triskal that God can indeed control the weather and earthquakes should he so desire, ie: the flood in Noah's time, the earthwquake in Moses'. However when the disciples were out on the lake in a boat and the storm came up Jesus rebuked the storm which makes me think that the enemy was able to stir up the elements.
I have rebuked weather and had instantaneous results. As a tornado approached my girlfriend's house we both prayed and even though it travelled in a straight line over her property, when it was going over her property it pulled up into the sky and didn't damange anything and then redescended on the other side.
cool
glam
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
Newcomb
05/26/01 3:52 PM
RE: Is God responsible for floods, tornadoes and earthquakes?
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Enjoying this question and agree that God can but usually doesn't control the weather.
I was on Sunrise Mountain with Steve Austin from ICR (www.icr.org) while we looked for nautiloids to help prove the flood.
(See pictures of them at:
http://community.webshots.com/album/14025899tAnkGNXMuC )
He was explaining that Creationists have moved from the idea that the earth is moving continually to the idea that God moved the plates during a short period of history and then stopped and that the earthquakes (you were wondering where this was headed weren't you?) are the result of strain left in the plates, not new movements per se.
So, is God responsible for earthquakes? Assuming this idea is true, he did move the plates originally, but then, why? Because man made him so mad he chose to judge this way, so, who is responsible? Man.
Is he currently causing them? Most of the time, no, sometimes? Who knows but him? But to say he directly controls the weather and other bad things that happen is really saying he is willfully killing people constantly. This isn't the God I see in the Bible.
If God is trying to convince us that he is love, then kills and destroys with "acts of God" then we have a massive problem with continuity.
Also, sovereignty does not mean "control" but implies rights. God has the unquestioned right to control the weather if he wishes, he is sovereign over the weather, not in constant control. Apply it to a king. The king is sovereign in his rule. He has the right to have the last say. It doesn't mean or even imply that everything that happens in his kingdon (where he is sovereign) is under his direct control.
Good question.
Newk'em
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
trosie
05/26/01 5:18 PM
RE: RE: Is God responsible for floods, tornadoes and earthquakes?
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Newcomb said:"God has the unquestioned right to control the weather if he wishes, he is sovereign over the weather, not in constant control."
AMEN! That sums up my view on God's sovereignity. Great pictures
In the peace of our sovereign God,
trosie
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