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DLW
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457
| Posted 4/17/2003 7:00 AM (GMT -6) |   | I believe historical perspective on Open Theism and why many Evangelicals have reacted so viciously against it can be found from reading the only history of USAmerican Evangelical Theology ever written by a non-evangelical, "The Remaking of Evangelical Theology" by Gary Dorrien.
Interestingly, he describes that among evangelicals there has always been conflict over theology, but that Calvinist had been the leaders, in large part because their theology was seen as more rigorous and consistent than that of the Arminians.
As such, if Open Theism provides a more rigorous consistent theology than Calvinism, this would tend to cause a shift in power/influence within white USAmerican Evangelicalism. So the opposition by Piper and the piperettes could be based in part upon this fact. Hence, as with much theology, historically, there tend to be other issues that lurk below the surface, like another case of power, who's got the power.
When I was in high-school, I read a short-story by Voltaire about a noble savage from the Americas who got transported to France and showed his lack of "corruption" from civiliation. Apparently, he was part of a bible study, where they came upon the passage in the Vulgate bible forbidding the eating of griffins(a bad translation of four-hoofed animals, I believe). There was some murmur among the group as to what exactly this passage met. Voltaire's hero concluded, "Well, if there be griffins let us not eat them. If there not be griffins, then let us even less of them." To which the group basically assented. Yet however, there was a scholar in the group who apparently had published quite a bit on griffins, what was known of them, how might they be identified and disposed of, yada, yada yada. Upon hearing how easily the prime object of his research had been displaced as an object of serious study, he set about in his mind to make sure that the Church took action to root out such dangerous heresy as was being introduced by Voltaire's hero.
And such is how the game, "power, power, who's got the power?" intrudes itself into the study of Theology. What personal interest do theologians who have studied and written at length on the concept of time in Classical Theology have to embrace the possibility of its displacement by Open Theism as the predominant theology among White USAmerican, Neo-Evangelical Christians?
dlw
Prayer from Kenya
From the Cowardice that dare not face new truth,
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From the Arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 4/17/2003 11:00 AM (GMT -6) | | Interesting! I have the book on my shelf but can't figure out where to place it in the list of 15 books to read. Should I move it up near the top of the list?
Thanks DLW.
Blessings,
Tom
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Newcomb
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 116
| Posted 4/17/2003 11:20 AM (GMT -6) | | Good point to ponder. While I agree that the Calvinists were more rigorous, one cannot ignore the political positions it held. The timing was good for the belief to take hold and the politics worked in their favor. Also, apologetics were not very strong and this led to the people ignoring basic contradictions which were (are) covered with retoric, that is the theodicy was poor, if you will. A Calvinist friend was over a few weeks ago an I simply pointed out that it cannot be true that God wills (planned) everything, and that when you sin you violate his will (as stated in scripture "sin is the violation of the law" and the law is Gods expressed will). It doesn't take long to point out contradictions.
While the theological politics are not in our (O.V.) favor, the apologetic politic is, that is, as the apologetics move increases, people are less willing to accept irrational theology. This is good.
Love your Prayer from Kenya.
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DLW
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457
| Posted 4/17/2003 1:47 PM (GMT -6) | | I think a lot of the heat over this debate can be understood better if we consider the sociology of religion aspects of the matter. For my view of the psychological aspects, check out my views in "Is Open Theology Scary?".
Having the most consistent theology has been used as the criteria for which of the religious groups that labelled themselves evangelical would be the leaders.
I do highly recommend reading Dorrien's book. He is an interesting man and after his wife/soul-mate died has consigned himself to spending the rest of his energy chronicling the history of liberal theology.
I think this is rather tragic, in my opinion,
dlw
Prayer from Kenya
From the Cowardice that dare not face new truth,
From the Laziness that is contented with half-truth,
From the Arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Lord Deliver Me. | | Back to Top | | |
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DLW
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457
| Posted 4/23/2003 7:29 AM (GMT -6) | | pgs 173-183 in "The Remaking of Evangelical Theology" deal with Open Theism...
On page 182, "Evangelical theology is still dominated by Calvinists; as Pinnock observes, "They pretty well control the teaching of theology in the large evangelical seminaries; they own and operate the largest book-publishing houses; and in large part they manage the inerrancy movement." Though Calvinists continue to control most evangelical institutions, in recent years they have lost control over the terms and boundaries of evangelical discussion. The defining debates in present-day evangelicalism are being shaped by thinkers who want to make their tradition less deterministic, less forensic, more open to pluralism and spiritual experience, and personally affected by the world. "The drift away from theological determinism is definitely on," Pinnock notes. The discussion currently taking place in evangelical theology is first a debate about themes and positions over which Pietist evangelical movements have long dissented from the dominant Reformed tradition. This is not to suggest that Pietist evangelicalism is necessarily progressive or emancipatory. It has produced some of the most repressive and mean-spirited movements in Christian history. Some of the off-shoots of American revivalism have been breeding grounds for bigotry movements, know-nothingism, and authoritarian politics.
Yet it is also in these little-esteemed religious currents that much of the present creative ferment in evangelical theology is taking place. The possibility of a progressive evangelicalism is being enhanced by the breakthrough of marginalized forms of evangelical thinking and witness. It is possible, however, that this development will ultimately produce little more than a rerun of old debates. It may be that the Arminian turn in evangelical theology will ultimately accomplish little more than a gain in status recognition for long-standing non-Reformed positions. The better possibility is that a new kind of evangelicalism will be created that moves beyond the boundaries of the classical, Pietist, and fundamentalist movements. In a postmodern cultural context, this possibility will hinge on how evangelicals rethink the antimodernism of their tradition."
I would like to posit that I think a focus on the Problem of Order does a betteer job of moving beyond the boundaries of the classical, Pietist, and fundamentalist movements than the Spiritual Warfare theodicy...
dlw
Prayer from Kenya
From the Cowardice that dare not face new truth,
From the Laziness that is contented with half-truth,
From the Arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Lord Deliver Me. | | Back to Top | | |
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DLW
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2003
Total Posts : 2457
| Posted 7/21/2003 1:23 PM (GMT -6) | | I'd thought I'd bring this one up since newbies like BWH might find this an interesting read.
I think anyone who is being persecuted for being a heretic, deviating from "traditional" Christianity would benefit from checking this book out.
It is the only history of Evangelical Theology done by a non-Evangelical...
dlw
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Ice-uh-cream-uh!!!
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 7/21/2003 2:04 PM (GMT -6) | | DLW posted"
quote:
On page 182, "Evangelical theology is still dominated by Calvinists; as Pinnock observes, ". . . "
. . .
It is the only history of Evangelical Theology done by a non-Evangelical...
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