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JCsites.com
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 169
| Posted 1/18/2003 10:38 AM (GMT -6) |   | Yesterday I was trying to give a brief explanation of Open Theism and found one question hard to answer.
First some background.
This guy who leads our biblestudy was discussing the prophetic gifts and was sharing a story of how God gave him a "word" for this fellow believer.
The word was, "Some things are going to take place that will leave you confused and upset. When this happens, remember that I love you, I'm at work, and in control."
Then two days later the guy who recieved this prophecy (word of knowledge, whatever) this guy's father died in a car accident. So our biblestudy leader was sharing how this prophecy wound up helping this person be "o.k." with the loss. He remembered that God is in control.
This got another person in my study, who knows a little of OT, thinking that if God chooses to partly know the future, what made God choose to know this future event and then decide to "warn" and "encourage" the son who was to lose his dad in a few days?
So boiling this down, a better way of asking is, "Does God know all the future?"
I said that according to OT, God could know 100% of the future, but chooses not to.
"Why does God choose not to know 100%?"
I said, because He wants us to have a true, freewill, to be a free agent.
So then question came, "so if he wants us to be free agents, then how does God choose which part of the future to know?"
and i said, You got me!
So most wise ones....
what did I get wrong, and what would be your answer?
JCsites Guy.
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yxboom
Registered Member
Date Joined Aug 2002
Total Posts : 7
| Posted 1/18/2003 11:40 AM (GMT -6) | | Before making the quick assumption that God chose to know this future event and reveal it to this "prophet". I would first call to question the prophecy. It is way too abstract. It is a matter of working with odds, Pat Robertson does it daily playing the numbers game. No specific event was spoken of: time, location, or members involved only that this guy would be troubled. With that kind of openness what commonly happens is six months later he either reflects back and says that one day 3 weeks ago my kid fell off his bike, that was troubling and remembers the prophecy and says fulfillment or he forgets the prophecy altogether. No harm no foul.
It just so happens the person's father died in a car accident. I believe the prophecy is what the person recieving believes post-facto and brings it to fulfillment rather than divine revelation. Being not one of the "most wise ones" I hope this helps some.
Deuteronomy 32:41 If I whet My glittering sword, and My hand takes hold on judgment, I will render vengeance to My enemies, and repay those who hate Me.” ’ | | Back to Top | | |
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Starkman
Registered Member
Date Joined Oct 2001
Total Posts : 1747
| Posted 1/19/2003 10:02 AM (GMT -6) | | Hey, JCsites,
The open view doesn't consist of the belief that God CHOOSES not to know the future. It is that there simply is no future to know other than that future which God has ordanied AND that future which is obvious: that the sun is going to rise in the East; and those not so obvious (at least to us but certainly to God): all those elements of human nature and of those "courses" on which a person's life is heading that are all seen by God at once and enables Him to see what's going to happen. (I'm lucky if I can see myself out the door without running into it!)
Next, I agree with xyboom; it was just as equally possible that this guy's father wouldn't be in that car accident, and then it's only a matter of time before something else would arise to "fulfill" the prophecy.
Thanks much,
Starkman
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GregBoyd
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 1818
| Posted 1/19/2003 12:13 PM (GMT -6) | | Amen to Starkman. The idea of "choosing not to know" involves a contradiciton, for you'd obviously have to KNOW something in order to CHOOSE "not to know" it. Also, with yxboom, I would be wary of reading to much into the prophecy (or even of accepting the prophecy as legit).
The important thing is to minister in love to those affected by this tragedy.
Doc
"In Christ...the ONLY THING that matters is faith energized by love." Galatians 5:6 | | Back to Top | | |
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PotOnWheel
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 9890
| Posted 1/19/2003 2:30 PM (GMT -6) | | | | |
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JCsites.com
Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 169
| Posted 1/19/2003 6:17 PM (GMT -6) | | Thanks for the insights about OT. Obviously I had it wrong. Someday I need to finish reading God of the Possible.
That's so much better an answer, that God Pre-ordains some things. Makes more sense to me.
As for the matter of prophecy, please understand that you all were reading my account of what this guy said. This guy was relating something that happened years ago, so for the purpose of our group he paraphrased.
Then about 3 days later I paraphrased his account in asking my question.
So I just want you all to know, my question was not whether the prophecy was a legit one. My question was about whether God chooses to know the future and how he Chooses which parts to know. In order to ask my question, I thought the ansilary (sp?) details were neccessary.
Thanks to Starkman for clearing me up on Choosing vs. Pre-Ordained.
For the record, I generally am skeptical of prophecy that I see in the church. It seems like too much of it is christian culture version of psychic fortune telling. Just the very thing yxboom was alluding to, I think.
JCsites Guy
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Tom
Registered Member
Date Joined Jul 2001
Total Posts : 10353
| Posted 1/20/2003 5:14 AM (GMT -6) | | Doc: The important thing is to minister in love to those affected by this tragedy.
Tom: Love, love, love. That's all I hear. Love, love, love...
...I love it!
Love never ends | | Back to Top | | |
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