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Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 516
| Posted 6/26/2001 6:09 PM (GMT -6) |   | 1Cor12_27
11/06/00 11:14 AM
Could anyone comment on OVT and Christian leadership??
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I have read all the posts, and while both sides are thought provoking enough to comment on, I am extremely time limited and will refrain.
I wonder,is OVT a 'new phenomenon'? Is OV Theism taught in colleges across the country, is Greg Boyd a 'one man band', or a pioneer on this?
What does Billy Graham think, James Dobson, Chuck Swindoll,Neil Anderson, Charles Stanley and on and on.....
Any help out there??
THANKS FOR YOUR REPLIES
1Cor12:27
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
NaveySealed
11/06/00 1:06 PM
RE: Could anyone comment on OVT and Christian leadership??
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I just got back from a class taught by John Sanders at Huntington College. He's the guy who wrote the stuff on the homepage of this site http://www.opentheism.org/
You can find his book, "The God Who Risks", in the book section of the site along with two books, "The Openness of God" and "The Grace of God, The Will of Man", which he has contributed to.
He'll be speaking at Nashville about a week from now at a Evangelical Theology Conference. He's presenting a paper at the conference. There will also be several other papers presented that will be critical of the open view.
Hopefully those papers will be better than the one presented by R.K. McGregor Wright at the Wheaton Philosophy Conference. The guys at Wheaton hadn't read his book attacking the open view . Otherwise he wouldn't have been invited to respond to John's paper.
William Hasker is another guy at Huntington (retired, but still hangs out there) who holds to the open view and has written material supporting it.
Please visit the question and answer section of the site to see who else is teaching the open view. There is a question that deals with the history of the open view.
We hope to have the dates of when and where some open theists are speaking soon.
In the Beloved,
Sealed
Eph 1:6
Posted Originally From: Open Theism Information Site
BBBCanada
11/09/00 10:57 AM
RE: Could anyone comment on OVT and Christian leadership??
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1Cor12_27 asked:
"What does Billy Graham think, James Dobson, Chuck Swindoll,Neil Anderson, Charles Stanley and on and on..... Any help out there?? THANKS FOR YOUR REPLIES 1Cor12:27"
These guys fall into the "soft-determinism" or the "compatibilism" camp. Billy Graham (protestantism's pope) is not a professional theologian (I think his doctorate is honorary, he stated one time that he wished he had more education). Dobson is not a theologian, he is a child pyschologist, which doesn't mean that he can't comment on the subject, just that this is not his area of expertise.
Greg Boyd is not a one man band, although that is the impression given, he is just the most vocal (he admits to be slightly hyper-active). There are others such as Clark Pinnock (founding exponent?), William Hasker, John Sanders, Richard Rice. Also, I have been hoping that the Webmaster will link up Robert Brow's website who has co-authored, "Unbounded Love" with Clark Pinnock, which can be retrieved in its condensed form at www.brow.on.ca He has some really thought-provoking material at his site. Maybe the Webmaster will give me a gift and put it up there by Christmas day.
Brandon
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
GregBoyd
11/10/00 6:57 PM
RE: No
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I am daily learning of other Open theists "out there." Some of them are in rather "high places." Much work needs to be done on this view historically (I learn of new people every once in a while). So far we know that the following orthodox people were in some sense Open Theists: Calcidius (5th century); Adam Clarke (early 19th century); Billy Hibburd (19th century preacher); L.D. McCabe (Chancelor of Ohio Wesleyan University, 19th century); and T.W. Brents (theologian, 19th century). Throughout this century there have been noteworthy exponents of this view, such as Gordon Olson and some of the early leaders of the YWAM movement. And today there are dozens of evangelical theologians and philosophers and untold numbers of pastors who espouse this view. It is not anyone's "one man show."
Blessings
GREG
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
BBBCanada
11/13/00 12:11 PM
RE: RE: No
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Greg said:
"It is not anyone's "one man show." True and Sanders gives some info in his book that this view has been espoused throughout church history from one degree to another. However, I would think that those opposed to his treatment would think he is being pretty scant with the evidence. This is why you also say, "So far we know that the following orthodox people were in 'SOME SENSE' OPEN THEISTS." In the "Gagging of God" D.A. Carson says in the footnotes that the authors of, "The Openness of God" did a terrible job of showing the historicity of this view. As has been stated at the "Open Theism" site, I don't think one can take the book "The Openness of God" as a 'full' treatment of the open view, only a general overview.
Brandon
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
stainlessoneeye
11/13/00 5:32 PM
RE: RE: No
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Greg:
Nice to meet you, btw. You listed "alcidius (5th century)" in the list, were you thinking of any texts in particular that show that he is "in some sense [an Open Theist]"?
stainless
Posted Originally From: Open Theism Information Site
GregBoyd
11/13/00 5:55 PM
RE: RE: RE: No
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To "Stainless,"
Check out Calcidius "On Fate." (I believe it is part of his commentary on Plato's Timaeus. I don't have the full reference on hand, but you can find it in the library.)
Greg
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
stainlessoneeye
11/15/00 4:16 PM
RE: RE: RE: RE: No
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Greg:
Are you saying that the only supporter of the Open View before the 18th century was a "Neo-Plantonist" (Copleston, vol. I, pt. II, 227) who "[tried to reconcile] Platonic cosmology [with] the biblical account of creation" (as one source put it)?
Please do not mis-understand my post, I am in no way trying to "knock" the view, I think it an interesting concept. I'm just having trouble understanding a few things.
stainless
Posted Originally From: Open Theism Information Site
stainlessoneeye
11/16/00 10:40 PM
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: No
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Greg,
In addition to the questions in my last post, you also said in your info section that:
"Others in Church history have qualified the content of God's omniscience more radically than the Open View (e.g. St. Jerome) and have not been judged as unorthodox."
Which texts in particular could I see this view in? Obviously my question in the previous post about Calcidius being the only person is invalid, but why do you esteem him so highly?
stainless
Posted Originally From: Open Theism Information Site
adiaphora
(Community Owner)
11/17/00 8:20 AM
OVT and Christian leadership info
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1Cor12_27, thank you for your inquiry.
Christus Victor Ministries has received affirmation and inquiries regarding the open view from professors, pastors, and lay people representing many evangelical ministries. On our website, we have included comments, endorsements, and quotes from Christian leaders and lay people who are open theists or who are open to the open view.
Comments: http://www.gregboyd.org/gbfront/index.asp?PageID=495
Endorsements: http://www.gregboyd.org/gbfront/index.asp?PageID=496
Cool quotes: http://www.gregboyd.org/gbfront/index.asp?PageID=543
Blessings,
adiaphora
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
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