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| Posted 6/27/2001 2:30 AM (GMT -6) |   | This thread is open to everyone. Might-be-don posted his testimony in Mephi's "People Who Want to Talk about Cool Stuff" thread. I was really blessed by it, and I would like to hear how God broke through to other people in this discussion. Thanks! GDG
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| Posted 6/27/2001 2:30 AM (GMT -6) | | What's your story?
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GDG,
Thought I'd add a little more to my story... to tell why I had been reading the bible.
About a week before my conversion I was taking another drug I was quite fond of , THC, a concentrated form of the active ingredient in marijuana. While visiting a druggy friend of mind he challenged me to tell him the meaning of a poster he had on the wall. The poster showed a white-haired old man sitting on a throne with the initials "HIC" carved into it. The question was, what is the meaning of the "HIC" . After pondering the poster for a few minutes, I gave up. My buddy revealed that it meant " He Is Coming " . About that time another friend walked in and I posed the challenge to him. As a goof on his head, after telling him the meaning, we proceeded to try and convince him that Jesus was real and coming back. We used everything we had ever heard about Jesus to convince this guy. He thought we were nuts. You just have to imagine 3 drugged guys sitting around talking about Jesus, it must have been a sight.
Well, after all this talk about Jesus, I was almost convinced myself that there must be something to it. I spent the next few days reading the bible at every opportunity. I worked as a delivery driver and would read the bible at every stoplight. It consumed me. This led to the story I mentioned before.
That was 28 years ago at the height of the Jesus Movement of the early 70's. My friends all thought my newly found faith in Jesus was just a fad, but I love Him more everyday. don
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| Posted 6/27/2001 2:30 AM (GMT -6) | | RE: What's your story?
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GDG- When I read this question I thought, “Yes! I want to hear people’s stories too!” Hearing how people arrive at their different perspectives fascinates me. Thanks might-be-don for jumping out on the limb and giving us a glimpse of where you came from. I am taking your lead and jumping out too, and currently I am convinced that I will regret it, but that really has never stopped me before. With all of the great Theological talk, I am not sure who will be receptive to discussing things on more of an experiential level…but here it goes:
As it pertains to God and Knowledge, I am in process, and would not say that I am an open theist (and may never simply for pride sake…I wouldn’t want my beloved open theist friends to think they had converted me or they might get big heads!) I guess you can put me in the category of: It’s possible that God is the God of the possible! But I am so thankful for friends like them who have challenged me and put up with all of my endless questions and defenses.
I do want to share, however, how the view of predetermination affected my life and how through time, the warfare worldview has impacted me. (Just a warning here, I will be getting personal and I hope this is not offensive to anyone.)
My mom taught me the traditional Christian views and our family was actively involved in church. I remember at age 4 or 5 swinging on the swing set in our backyard and singing songs to Jesus…I felt so much love for him then and I also felt very loved by him! Around this time my parents took in foster kids who were delinquent. Our house was the last chance of correction for them before being placed in juvenile detention. I was too young to know about how sick the world can be, but nevertheless I found out. One of the boys (I think he was 17 and I was 4 or 5) had a recorded of sexually abusing boys and girls. I am sure you can guess what happened. He abused me for about 2 years on and off, told me I was his “little girlfriend” and gave me lots of presents. I started getting sick…I won’t go into detail, but after taking me to the doctor, my mom figured out what was going on. She wanted to kick him out. My dad would not let her, for reasons I don’t want to go into. She kept him away from me and he eventually moved out but he came to all the family events. He sexually abused me again when I was in 4th grade and told me not to tell, but I did. That night, my mom threatened to leave my dad unless he kept this man away from us. My dad then tried to commit suicide in front of all of us.
There is more to the story than this, but enough said to make this point: I experienced a situation where I was supposed to be protected by my parents…especially my father! I wondered how a father could allow this to continue to his daughter? Now throw in the mix the belief of predestination…that not only my earthly father allowed it, but somehow God allowed I as well. And not just allowed it, but also actually received something from it…something some call glory.
I realize many have been through far worse than what I experienced, but here is how it affected me: Throughout my teenage and college years I turned to drugs and a promiscuous lifestyle. I used to hate myself so incredibly much that I would cut my arms with razors and burn myself. I did this hundreds of times and was hospitalized for a period of time. (I do want to clarify that I am NOT saying I did these things because of a belief I had in predestination! Rather, it was that belief, in these circumstances that kept me from a relationship with God.) Although God seemed so far away, I continued to seek him. I wanted to love him and I wanted to feel loved by him. Like many other people, I wondered how God could be loving and yet cause so much pain? I already believed that men use women to get their needs met…is that what God was about too? Getting his need for glory met in my abuse? As I went to counseling, and got a little older, I did get to a degree of normalcy and got back into church. This view of God did not change, but I thought I would just keep trying to get close to him. I went to a church where I heard for the first time (in a way that made sense!) about the warfare view. Then it started to click with me…why would there even need to be a Satan if God ordained every evil? Did he need someone to play “good cop”, “bad cop”? No, God is at war with Satan. People have free will to be influenced by Satan or by God. God, the ultimate Father, had no intention of his daughter being hurt in this way. Okay, THIS I could make sense of.
A few years after going to this church I was at a friends house where a group of us were praying. None of them knew at the time how much I still struggled with my view of God. As we were praying, God gave one of them a scripture telling me how much God loved me. At that moment I got a vivid picture of me swinging on that swing set when I was 4 and Jesus coming up a swinging with me. He would stand in front of me and I would jump into his arms and he would twirl me around. My picture of God was changing. I could see him in that dark, cold room with grieving, as any healthy father and me when I was 4, raging would. I could see him holding me and telling me that it wasn’t his plan to have my dad try to kill himself and that dads aren’t supposed to do things like that. For the first time since I could remember, I felt that God really loved me.
Okay, I know right now if Lion-Lamb and Mephi are reading this (I love both of you guys!) they are thinking “just another one lead astray by OV”…just kidding. Truly, my hope is maybe those who tend toward Calvinism will at least understand why to some, believing in predestination may mean the possibility of not believing at all. And I also hope that others will open up and share their stories as well! (Don’t leave me hangin’ here by myself people!) Maybe we can even hear a personal story from someone who can’t “do” OV?!
Misevac
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| Posted 6/27/2001 2:31 AM (GMT -6) | | RE: RE: What's your story?
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Misevac,
Thank you... there's a cool, refreshing breeze sitting out on this limb.
I would suggest that we refrain from discussing the issues that might be raised on this thread and let the stories stand as is.
don
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| Posted 6/27/2001 2:31 AM (GMT -6) | | RE: RE: What's your story?
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Ooops! Somehow a sentence I wrote got mangeled...It reads:
My picture of God was changing. I could see him in that dark, cold room with grieving, as any healthy father and me when I was 4, raging would.
What I meant to write was that I could see God in the room with me (at the time of abuse)greiveing and raging as any healthy father would.
Misevac
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| Posted 6/27/2001 2:32 AM (GMT -6) | | : What's your story?
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GDG,
This is a great idea! Let us continue with the respect shown so far by not questioning the validity of each other's experiences. While it is surely illuminating to hear the story behind a person's faith, the story is not the sufficient explanation of a person's current convictions. Faith picks up many tools along the way toward understanding…
I will try to keep this ASAP (as SHORT as possible!). (postscript: I failed miserably.)
My first self-reflective thoughts about Jesus that I can recall must have been when I was about 4 or 5. I came home from a Christmas party at church for the kids flatly disgusted. I went to this party and even brought a present, and this Jesus dude didn't even have the decency to show up.
As I grew up that seemed confirmed in my experience of church. I quickly learned that all people are hypocrites and that what we hear on Sunday morning is only relevant to that couple of hours. Life goes on as usual otherwise. Agnosticism set in by age 13. My parents divorced when I was 15 and the rebellious streak in me that had been latent but brewing pushed forth powerfully for the next three years.
At age 18 I met a girl (not the first, but this one was different). I noticed her right away because in her own way she was rebellious too. She didn't care what people thought of her, she dressed however she pleased, didn't bother with much make up, earrings, etc. All of this reflected a confidence and strength to me which I couldn't resist. I wanted to know more…
No dice… No dating for us unless I converted to her wacko fundy faith. Bum deal. But hey, I had set my mind on her. I was curious and persistent. Phone calls ensued. I figured, since obviously I am not about to cave to her cult the only way forward is to show her that she is badly deceived. Surely she'd thank me later.
Many hours of questions and arguments later, (she was really quite brilliant and clearly had more than words to her strength) the tide began to change and I admitted that I could see how a reasonably intelligent person might live and believe the things that she did. But what was to get me from here to there?
I later learned that Christ is both the message to be believed and the condition for belief. At the time what I experienced was much more powerful than the words above but for the same reason much less expressible. God interrupted my life dramatically: it was a swift and merciful killing. A series of events which tore down every avenue for support for myself at the time precipitated a manic sort of cry out to what I hoped but did not believe. God answered me concretely. I had an experience that very much parallels Saul's (prior to being Paul). I was knocked off my horse, so to speak, caused to be blinded to all the things that I normally reached for, and God spoke. This speech was very significant for my future faith because it involved several things that God knew that I would need for faith:
1. God knew that I would need an a piori respect for Scripture even when everything else I learned about it pointed to its deconstruction…
2. God knew that I was not ready to understand that it was through Christ that God spoke to me at this time…
3. God knew that my rebelliousness was strong and that I needed deep breaking to be able to be obedient…
This is obviously only my verbal reflection upon what I experienced, it is likely that there is much that I was supposed to get that I missed or cannot communicate (hence the silence of so many great saints who better recognize the sanctity of such moments). But this is my faith, seeking words to say to you about this event that so far surpasses words. Words like "spoke, understood, heard, addressed," etc. while meaningful, fail miserably to encompass the glory of such an encounter. With heavy qualification, I continue…
God addressed me audibly in my mind, no picture, but a voice with whom to interact. This was accompaniedby a very distinct kenesthetic presence which through time I have come to be familiar with. As it always must be, God started. I went into shock which changed to fear and then…a moment of decision. The question as I formulated it in my mind was "either God and I just spoke to each other or I have completely lost it and should go check myself in someplace." I went with the former.
As a reflection back upon 1-3 above:
God spoke to me in words that I had heard before, words from Scripture or at least what sounded like it to me. There was no mention or recognition of the person of Jesus Christ at this point. The encounter itself had a forcefulness which interrupted my dizziness with a moment of clarity but didn't satisfy the existential ought…I still had to choose not to ignore this experience. God's influence was great (to match my need), but not overbearing. I could have taken offense at the situation and written it off as temporary insanity. The "intellectualizable/theological" content of the encounter between God and me was basic, as I asked questions, God showed me that he is real, told me that he loves me and that we had things to do.
The Spirit apparently didn't wait for my comprehension of a sound Christology because I found that immediately several sinful patterns in my life were not even among my desires anymore. This turned out to be an initial free-bee that served to jump start my walk, but these same issues began to require the usual discipline years later…
From that initial point on, I read the Bible voraciously (remember God validated it for me in the encounter) knowing that I had much to learn and have been pursuing God with mind, soul, and heart since. It is through this further study alongwith discussions with other Christians who knew Christ, that proclamation became the outlet for a passion that was otherwise difficult to contain.
To this day, I believe that the most persuasive apologetic tool is the personal testimony. It cannot be objectively questioned, but it can be experienced and witnessed in the transformed person's life in such a way that it overflows onto others around them. Passion bears fruit. For those who know Dr. Boyd, he likely comes to mind as a case in point. For all of the tight argumentation he is capable of to knock down walls which preclude the possibility of a meaningful encounter with God, it is Boyd's passion coupled with the Spirit's power that finally inspired his father's (and hundreds, thousands? of others) receptivity to God's voice.
Those who have heard Billy Graham might say something similar. Billy speaks as someone who knows God, and the whole world believes him in this claim. They come to hear this trusted testimony so that they might share in its power. The response is consistently overwhelming!!! Praise God!
A word to all of you who feel like the theological "lightweights" on these discussions; know that Billy Graham is a poor excuse for a theologian, but who can match his passion and the fruit it bears? Most of the people on this discussion board can do better in terms of formal theological writing, but who dares compare themselves to his passion and power as used by God?
Testimony is speaking about the reality of your relationship to God unapologetically. You have nothing to prove, but much to offer. Tell the world what God has done for you and then remember, blessed are those who are not offended by Christ…
I am quite aware that I transitioned from witnessing to God's work in my life to theologizing about missiology. Feel free to engage with my theologizing (by starting another thread addressing me) while respecting the unapologetic nature of the testimony itself. If I fail to respond to a challenge in this thread, it may be safe for the challenger to read the following as applicable to what they have said:
"You cannot shake the clarity of my walk with God with questions/challenges grounded in the dizziness of human congition. I speak of one I know and love, let us speculate theologically in another thread. I confess to you here the sacredness of a 'belief,' or better a relationship, that is much more…it is life itself…and yet infinitely more."
In the above statement I do not intend to be anti-intellectual, but only to put overly "intellectualized faith" in proper perspective. Some evangelicals take their own theology so seriously that to do likewise is to harm the honest pursuit of truth itself, not to mention that it would reflect a profound pastoral insensitivity to such persons.
Thanks to the others whose boldness have set the example for sharing here, it is a bit unnerving eh?
Modes
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| Posted 6/27/2001 2:32 AM (GMT -6) | | RE: RE: What's your story?
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Modes-
Thank you for jumping out here! I read your testimony twice and was really interested in your experience you had when you heard from God. It is so cool to read about your personal testimony (since I have been a faithful Modes’- posting–reader). I am so curious now how you came from that background into being able to theologize with the best of them? Please explain!
Also- I would LOVE to hear testimonies from GDG, Lion-Lamb, Springs, Trosie and others.
Misevac
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| Posted 6/27/2001 2:33 AM (GMT -6) | | RE: RE: RE: What's your story?
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Modes, I too appreciated your testimony. So you're a product of missionary dating? And my mother told me that never works! Seriously though, it sounds like God was the one who finally broke through to you in a powerful way, and I thank you for sharing that.
Misevac, I praise God for your powerful testimony of how God is bringing healing and wholeness to your life. And might-be-don, of all the interesting Bible study techniques I've heard, the stoplight method takes the cake!
As for my story, well....I asked Jesus to come into my heart when I was five. Pretty amazing testimony, ain't it? Actually there's more to it, but I really don't want anyone to know who I am and I think if I told my story people would be able to figure it out. Maybe later.
Thanks again for testifying to God's awesome work in your lives!!!!! GDG
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| Posted 6/27/2001 2:33 AM (GMT -6) | | What's your story?
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G-D-G said:
"Actually there's more to it, but I really don't want anyone to know who I am and I think if I told my story people would be able to figure it out."
For some reason, I have had a feeling this was going on with ya girlfran...I think you gave yourself away in one of the earlier posting and ever since I have been questioning it! And you seem to post in such a way as to go out of your way to not let us know at times. E-mail me if you want me to try my guess at who the great ghost-dog-girl is.
Brandon
P.S. You can click on my name to e-mail me.
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| Posted 6/27/2001 2:33 AM (GMT -6) | | and so it goes...
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warning--this is too long, flee now while you still have a chance!! (how long is your break supposed to be again?)
Second warning, this posting very likely violates the intention of this thread... you could still turn away...
Misevac, I am honored that you read my posts, I guess its official, I now know just enough to be dangerous...
My anonymity is still worth something to me as I have not yet decided whether or not I agree with myself on this site yet. So here's what I'll do, since my reading your testimony is what inspired me to give mine, I'll honor your request existentially (minus the historical circumstances) rather than academically. That should fit better with the flavor of this thread anyway. (My attempt to make SOME concession to continuity here.)
I left off my story with a passion for reading Scripture. I was absorbing as much as I could from the Bible as well as those who I perceived to be particularly wise and faithful. Coming into conservative evangelical circles (from our typical naturalistic American worldview) this lead me toward highly rationalistic/apologetic types. Scholastic neo-fundamentalists (as Roger Olson might say) really. I'll spare the names... Unfortunately I bit off too much of that and drove my family away during the early part of my Christian walk. I was trying to prove to educated people that the earth was young and the whole gig…
However, my own spiritual walk was growing rapidly and ministry opportunities were everywhere around me! Fortunately, reality has a way of confronting the open-minded of the naive. The highly rational forms of theology excited me at first because of the beauty of coherence itself and the enjoyment of walking one's mind through the steps of each move from assertion to conclusion. The problem was that inevitably, the more "rational" we insist something be, the more we tend to slip into abstractions for the sake of desired coherence. As I have mentioned elsewhere, and others have too, reality is not in the abstractions, it is in the particulars. The more abstract the thoughts the correspondingly less relevant they are. This is a difficult thing for a rational intellectual wannabe to learn!
In terms of the Myers-Briggs I went from an ENTP to an INFP. Where earlier on I was a 10 out of 10 on the T scale (1-5 being F, 6-10 being T) Now I am a 5 on the F scale. I count this as significant progress, since 5 is much closer to balanced than 10. Anyway, so I became disillusioned with the "perfections" of rationalistic theology. This does not by any means indicate that I give up on being reasonable! We must always strive for coherence and consistency, but not at the cost of what is most evident about the particulars with which we deal.
This led me to investigate other ways of doing theology that are equally faithful, equally rigorous, and yet so much more relevant. As an aside here, I enjoy Boyd because though his books might reflect the rationalist in him, his life and ministries pour out passion and genuine openness to those around him. People talk about public figures living their lives under glass, this is true, and Boyd does not miss a beat because of this. He is truly not ashamed of the Gospel of Jesus Christ (Rom. 1:17). Like Paul, Boyd is made strong for the sake of the Gospel through his weaknesses, on a very regular basis The point here being, I have been impressed with his grasp upon reality despite the highly abstract character of much of his thought.
Dialectical/existential/empirical even creedal (I avoided using the word "traditional" to escape complete opacity, to borrow a word from LL) ways of approaching theology began to make increasing amounts of sense to me. This is all reflected in my discussion with Mephi in the thread initiated by Boyd's summary of the Anthropomorphic discussions. In case Mephi is looking, I will interject the four criteria I use for my pursuit of truth: coherent & logical (the rationalist criteria), applicable and adequate (the empiricist criteria).
Lately, I have been finding that it is quite enough to experience God's love, reflect on the incredible things that God has done and wants to do, listen to God's voice, and obey. In fact, quite a bit more than enough. The incredible reality of Christ being God in the flesh and our invitation to participate in that reality is enough that it may well use up my entire life's worth of reflective capacity should I give it my full attention continually. Have I abandoned "clear thinking" then? My hope is that my contribution to this discussion argues the contrary, but my incentive for participating in such conversations must be to edify the Body of Christ in some way. Meph and I agree that thinking at all starts with belief, for me, this "starting with belief" entails the "leap" that it takes to decide to think about something at all! Perhaps this is what Mephi was getting at in his questions about the falsifiability of free-will. For me, I believe that I have free will because I can live no other way. Kierkegaard makes this very point with his pseudonym Johannes Climacus, who decides to obey the philosophers instead of joining them. He decides to truly attempt to "doubt everything" as per the Cartesan dictum. Rather than concluding that the only thing he cannot doubt is that he is doubting (as Descartes concluded) he concludes that doubting is hard work! He has to really work at continuing to choose to doubt! He finds, then, that the act of thinking a certain way, that moment of choosing to do it really, is what he cannot deny. To DO the thinking is to involve oneself in the activity, it is existentially trying. Such participation requires choice which, of course, presupposes free will. After all, it is painfully clear to Johannes Climacus that he could choose to give up on doubting, surely that would be easier, but he has chosen it, committed himself to it, and he will try to work it through to the end, perhaps then, he will understand the true wisdom of the philosophers who say things which he cannot think…
To answer your question more directly, then, Misevac, I would say that my journey has taken me from the moment of encounter with God through assessing that encounter as I was. That is, through the criteria most characteristic of white, middle-class, male, mid-western American, naïve, teenaged, blah, blah, blah…these criteria being, for me at that time, primarily those of the rationalists (kind of the "oh yeah? prove it! formally that is." approach)…out into the real world as insisted on by the empiricists and if I am honest, I am still recovering from my swing toward this latter pole (empiricism) though perhaps moving somewhat back toward the middle.
Modes
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| Posted 6/27/2001 2:34 AM (GMT -6) | | RE: RE: RE: What's your story?
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Hi Misevac:
Thanks for asking about our stories. Here's mine. I think I was a lot like you as a little girl as far as loving to sing about Jesus. I would swing and sing songs about Jesus to my dog. I also enjoyed singing at church. I used to love standing up on the pew singing loudly and clapping my hands at the Catholic Church we attended (my favorite song was called "Holy, Holy, Holy") I would do this until my parents inevitably would tell me to stop because this wasn't acceptable behavior for church. Can you imagine that -- a child worshipping like this was not acceptable behavior at church?! I am so thankful for the exuberance shown in worshipping God today (at least in my church)
Anyway, there was something in me that desired a relationship with God. I loved going to church but had no idea that I could actually have a "personal" relationship with Jesus. I used to love playing church at home when I was a child. I used to pretend that I was filling in for the priest and my favorite part of the service was doing communion....I had the whole Catholic Mass memorized.
I grew up in a VERY abusive and VERY dysfunctional family, hence I learned early on how to be a "survivor". Something that helped me cope with the chaos of life and brought me comfort was animals. As a result of this I am an animal LOVER to this day! When I was in my young teen years I was left basically alone to raise myself -- I was the youngest of the siblings in my family. My parents divorced and I lived with my dad, but he wasn't home much so I was often alone. I LONGED for a family. I remember going to church and looking at the statues of Mary, Joseph, and Jesus wishing that I could have a "normal" family like Jesus seemed to have had. Then, when I was fifteen, one of my friends at school invited me to go to a youth group bible study. I met Jesus in a VERY personal way at this youth group. My life was changed! He became the parent that I longed for. I no longer had to eat dinner alone because I now realized that He was sitting at the table with me -- He was (and always will be) my comforter!
I wanted to share my story with you to stress the importance and the impact we adults can have in the lives of children. Through my own experience I realize how important it is for young people to be taught that there is a personal God who loves them and desires a relationship with them. I know that there are many kids out there who aren't aware of this truth.
My coming to this personal relationship with Christ was life changing, and it has been a love affair ever since... need I say more
Blessings to you
trosie
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| Posted 6/27/2001 2:34 AM (GMT -6) | | Mephi Tells His Story
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Warning: This is long and gets deep. Just lettin' you know.
Prelude
I read Misevac's story and her appeal for someone who can't "do" the Open View to spill their guts, as it were. After some prayer, I figured that it might be a good idea. Not only does this act as good "testimony time" for believers in the Faith, but it also provides some background for people's belief structures. I'll bite...
One day, a person asked me, "If you were to write a book about your life, what would it be?" I thought about it for a while and came up with a title that I may actually use when I do write an autobiography: "&$@#!" : Confessions of a Vessel in the Potter's Hands. That's how I would summarize my life as a Christian, being honest. Maybe after you read some of this, you'll see why...strap your seat belts on and proceed, peeps!
"The details of my life are quite inconsequential...Oh, very well. Where do I begin?..."
--Dr. Evil from "Austin Powers: International Man of Mystery"
Origin of The Theistic Agnostic
I was born into a Southern Baptist home. My mom was a very big believer and stuff. Interestingly enough, she told me once that she dedicated my life to God at birth. (At the time that she told me, I couldn't care less, being honest.) I did the relatively puerile Easter day speeches, ushered in the church (ugh.), and all that. As I grew, and saw more and more about Christianity, and read more and more about other faiths, I became relatively disillusioned with Christianity qua my Baptist roots. By the time I went to college, God was a genuine possibility, but nothing more than that. I would pray to God kinda as my "If-you-just-get-me-out-of-this-one-more-time.." Santa Claus type deity. Moreover, I believed that all roads lead to Rome, as it were. Everyone was basically worshipping the same thing...or everyone was deluded. Hmmm..maybe if things had happened differently, I'd be a unitarian universalist now...but I guess that's beside the point...hehe... I couldn't stand most Christians because, frankly, most Christians that I were familiar with at that time were friggin hypocrites and philanderers. Plus all the Christian organizations on campus were getting a lot of the available pretty girls "chaste and holy"...(Crud! LOL) At any rate, even during this time, God tried to break through. But something always came up to obscure the vision. On the outside view to everyone else, life was cool. I had good grades, lots of people offering me jobs and stuff, bright future. On the inside, sometimes I would genuinely think about suicide...but only for split second intervals. I had too much money to make in the future to waste myself, I thought. I even once thought of the idea of me going to hell. As I thought about it, I eventuallysaid "Oh, well, &$^# it. If it exists at all, I don't care." As a result of some networking, I got a great opportunity that, unbeknownst to me, God would use in an interesting way.
Bay City and My Pascalian Experience
I'm relatively a skeptic. I like fantasy and stuff, but I'm not a credulous idiot. I had secured a very good internship opportunity in a place called Bay City. While I was there, my mother began to pester me endlessly about finding a church home. Seeing as how I had been to church about 5 times in the last 4 years, I found it pointless. Just a ritual or something. But I decided to accede to her wishes. Through this girl I met in a store (Yes, I was trying to get "acquainted" with the local town supply already.), I heard about a new church that just sprang up. I came to this fairly small church where a fairly small man was preaching. I sat near the back and just chilled out. I figured I'd veg out like I always did before. But this time something was different. My man was preaching out of the Bible...and it was actually interesting. I decided that I would come back again and check it out. The next time, I was even more interested. I decided the stuff actually started to make some sense. He talked about Jesus, sin, and stuff. I don't know...what do you call that stuff...oh, yeah...the GOSPEL. He asked if anyone wanted to receive the Good News...and something interesting happened. Usually, I leave about that time and I thought I'd be getting up to leave. However, I ended up walking down the aisle and giving my life to Christ. Fancy that. There was no real emotion or anything like that. Just an acknowledgment of sorts.
Shortly after that, I had what can only be characterized as a mystical experience as the result of a simple prayer...at WORK, or all places. Sheesh. It was kind of analogous to Blaise Pascal's "fiery" experience in some ways. Being honest, it scared the heck outta me. To this day, I remember my first words after that: "Oh, my God. There IS a God!" LOL I was so friggin scared because I had really been kinda halfway about all this stuff up until then. Moreover, with all the sin I'd been involved in, I was SURE that God was gonna take me out. But lo and behold, He didn't. After that, my prayer life accelerated and I really opened myself up to God. Not long after that, I got "the call" To say that I had changed was an understatement. Judging by my new behavior (Not getting drunk, taking tokes, cussin' like crazy, etc.) Many people thought that it was just a phase and that I'd be back to normal after a while. Some people thought that I had dipped into a cult or something. Only something of that level of brainwashing could have made THIS much of a change, they reasoned. But that's not what happened. I was just assured that God had saved me, that Jesus loved me, and that he had called me to proclaim and live the Gospel. Little did I know what living for Jesus and not myself would entail...
"Let's get frank like Sinatra..."
--lyric from "Human Supastar" by Cross Movement, Christian rap group
The Most Stressful, Painful Time In My Human Existence
During this time in my spiritual formation, many different things were happening with me. Some things were good. Some things not so good. Some things were just downright horrible. There is one horrible situation in particular that Though I am not at liberty to go into many details about the situation itself due to some of the persons involved, suffice it to say this. There was a time of INTENSE trial, betrayal, and
During this time, I cried out to God...a lot. I'm talking wallowing on the ground, face in a puddle of tears type stuff. I prayed for strength, courage and wisdom to obey Him in this dark time in my life. I fasted like there was no tomorrow. Not to the point of unhealthiness, but a lot! I HAD to lean on Him more than any other time because basically He was the only one I could turn to. Many times, God in his graciousness would give me the peace that I would need to keep my sanity. At other times, there was a dark, deep silence that seemed to mock my very pain (Check out St. John of the Cross' dark night of the soul concept) Through his grace and that alone, I made it. I admit there were some times--I'm thinking of one in particular--that I felt that I just couldn't go on. I wanted it all to be over. At those times, God would lovingly nugde me upward kinda saying "Look, it's gonna be ok."
Things came to a head at a point in this situtation. It was apparent in this situation that God had let me down. I had obeyed God as best as my fledgling mind could comprehend to do so and held fast to what He'd specified me to do...and it appeared that God had let me down...big time. To everyone else, I looked idiotic in my childlike faith. Mockery crowned me and I was the king of fools.
"O LORD, you deceived me and I was deceived. You overpowered me and prevailed. I am ridiculed all day long; everyone mocks me."
---Jeremiah, the weeping prophet, Chapter 20, verse 7
At this point, I was literally numb. Life was like big daze. I didn't want to hear the words "God", "Jesus", "faith", or anything like that at all. God used my father to bring me back from the utter brink, but still I was very hurt, disillusioned, and frankly, ticked off. I lay in bed one day, and I felt God speaking to my heart to read Job--ALL of it--3 times. In my mind, I said "Screw you." But the impulse was so strong, I couldn't deny it. "Read this stuff three times?" I thought to myself. "I haven't gotten through it ONCE yet. And you want me to do this 3 times...after you've shafted me like this?" After some time, I finally conceded. I figured what the heck. The first time through was kinda hard. Like I said, life was a big daze and it was hard keeping focus. The second time was better. The third time was the doozy. It was then that it hit me. "God is God, buddy. He knows a lot more than you do...AND he's YOUR creator. You either trust him or you don't. It's that simple." I started really thinking about that. Then I started thinking about the Lord Jesus. "Hmmm...does this experience nullify the fact that Jesus died for ME on the cross. Does this experience nullify John 3:16 at all?" I had to come to the conclusion "No." Suddenly the thought flashed like lightning in my mind "Then God's love for you has not and WILL not change." It was here that I began to come to my ultimate conclusion:
Though God loves us and we are his children, we are STILL his creations under his divine authority and will. We were made for HIS purposes and not ours. For me to deny that would have been for me to deny everything I knew about God up to that point. Jesus's sacrifice has for ALL time demonstated God's love for me. No circumstances that I may face can ever nullify God's love for me. And those circumstances include God himself taking you through hell...for no apparent good reason. Moreover, God is worthy of worship for the simple fact that He is God. Nothing else is necessary.
Much later, I prayed. "Ok, God. I understand now that you are God and I am mortal. You know lots more than I do. And I know that you are not obligated to answer me, but I have to ask? Lord, WHY? WHY did this happen? Why did you allow this to happen to me when all I wanted to do was love, serve, and follow you? Why?" Hey, I wanted to know! Now it was here that I think that I learned a valuable lesson. When I asked the question, to be honest, I don't think I really expected an answer. I was just going to say "Oh, well. Didn't hurt to try" and go on trusting God in the mystery of the situation. But God is very surprising at times. After much prayer on the issue, I felt that God actually spoke to my heart and gave me a reason. And you know what? It SUCKED to me as a reason. I was like "I went through all that...just so that THAT could take place??" Yup. Hmmm..now talk about a rock and a hard place! I would have been better off not knowing at ALL, just trumping it all up to some ambiguous "greater good" of some type.
[Note: Sometimes I think we trump this "greater good" thing to be analogous to the movie "It's a Wonderful Life" where the actions of one George Bailey seem to mean SO much in the ultimate life of his town, Bedford Falls. What a romantic notion of one's impact on the broad scheme of things. I also think of the poem "The Nail" Oh, for the want of a nail...]
Then it dawned on me. So many people (including myself) want the "greater good" to be THEIR greater good, not necessarily truly GOD's greater good. God's "greater good" is nothing more than a euphemism for God's will. Pure and simple. Sure, I can TRUST that God's will will ultimatly be for "good" and MY good in particular. But as we so often hear, God's ways are not our ways. So, at this point, I was, again, kinda ticked off. But I looked at the situation. "What are you going to do?", I asked myself, "Go against God whom you KNOW to exist?" It was here that I began to see that when it came to God and the crisis of faith, there are only two options: faith or rejection...and the latter choice seemed to much like idiocy for me to legitimately accept. Besides, I pondered, I always like it when I'm richly blessed. How come I can't roll with some of the devastating punches in life that God allows me to take?
"His wife said to him, 'Are you still holding on to your integrity? Curse God and die!' He replied, 'You are talking like a foolish woman. Shall we accept good from God, and not trouble?'
--Job 2:9-10
I made my choice. I stuck with God. The question was clear: "Master, where else can I go?" Oh, yes, people. I AM a God fearer. No doubt.
The School of Hard Knocks
Relatively a short time after all this, I followed my calling and went into seminary (where I am still). When I got here, I knew that God had called me here. I flowed with theology like it was second nature. (My two previous degrees were in the business field) I also met a young man who was just as zealous for God as I was, even moreso. I'll call him Joe. We quickly became friends and he is still one of my best friends. We shared a love for God's word and theologizing. I readily took to my studies and began reading everything that I could get my hands on. I loved systematics and apologetics and would use the bibliographies at the back of my systematic texts to get OTHER books to read. Oh, the joy of reading! Oh, let me set the background of my learning. Though our faculty is very diverse, the main bulk of the school itself and its' theology is thoroughly of Wesleyan roots and Arminianism (for the most part) reigns supreme here. Moreover, the spiritual warfare view--meaning cosmic, though not dualistic, stuggle between God's forces and Satan's forces-- is also very accepted here. As Joe and I kept reading and studying about various theologians, church fathers, and the Scriptures themselves, a new idea was coming to me...and it was this: The Biblical God was in control of evil. Now of course to some this really didn't mean much, because of some of the terminology that more Arminian-minded theologians use. But we were thinking on a deeper than that. Plus I was reflecting on my past experiences. We perceived that the distinction "God ordaining" and "God allowing" thing was more apparent than real and merely semantical balderdash to get away from making some very concrete statements. We kept asking questions about the implications of God's attributes as it related to sin, redemption, providence, and spiritual conflict. "Did God know the Adam would sin before he created him?" "Did he know that Satan would rebel?" "Why didn't God prevent the Holocaust" In asking these questions, we began delving very highly into theodicy and the moral implications of theodicy's questions.
"Doe God love Goodness because it is good, or is it good because God loves it?"
--Paraphrase of Socrates' question in Plato's "Euthyphro"
Long story short, after all our reading and studying, we came to what we thought was an undeniable conclusion: God is the ultimate author of both evil and good. We saw that there could be no other way for everything we'd read to make sense. After attempting to have discussion with other seminarians, we quickly found out that it was a VERY unpopular view, to say the least. In our context, God was a good God and the Devil was a bad devil...and that was all there was to it. Sure, God had ultimate power over the devil, but it was the Devil and humans (NOT God) that was the ultimate cause of all the evil in the world. Oh, and classes were a riot. We would never really ask questions in a demanding or disruptive manner, but we would ask questions that illustrated what we had come to believe. Furred eyebrows and questioning looks everywhere, from students (and a few faculty) alike! LOL Because of what we perceived to be difficult reception of our thoughts, we playfully dubbed ourselves "The Theological School of Hard Knocks" (Think of the movie "The Dead Poets Society") So many people didn't like the idea, we (probably arrogantly) figured that instead of really searching for biblical truth for themselves and admitting at least the POSSIBLITY that what we said had some validity, many were just following the tow party line. So much for the search for truth, I thought...
"You want the truth. Oh, You WANT the truth! You can't HANDLE the truth!"
--Col. Nathan Jessup from "A Few Good Men" (Oh, Nicholson does rock!)
At any rate, over time, youthful idealism and arrogance began to be tempered with realism, moderation, and humility. I had begun doing a lot of reading on other faiths as well as various views within Christianity. I also began to read about openness theology and some of its adherents. This led me to understand WHY my view seemed so abhorent to some people. Moreover, a devastating thing happened. My friend Joe, my homie, my ace, slowly went on a decline from a radical (though fairly legalistic and rigid) Christian to a theistic agnostic who didn't believe in Jesus and didn't believe in the Bible as God's word. He told me that he'd seen too many hypocrisies in the Church and too many questions with Christianity in dialogue with other faiths that had gone unanswered. (I was so busy with school and ministry that I didn't see this coming... ) As we talked about it, it also became clear that, though there were many reasons for his decision, one of those reasons was our theological view of God, the God who was the ultimate author of evil as well as good. He said that it slowly weared on him. "If God can ULTIMATELY be held responsible for all evil," he said, "then how does His good acts mean anything?" (Joe thought the openness view argument was fallacious and illogical as heck, and therefore, he couldn't accept it. He was more at home with a type of process theology.) I tried to show him by Scripture what the deal was. He said he knew that and that's part of the reason why he couldn't accept Scriptural authority either. I even tried to use my understand of God's love (via my horrible experience) to him to show him that none of this negated God's love. Then he said something that hit me like a ton of bricks. "Think, man. I haven't had your experience." I hadn't truly caught the power of presuppositions and personal experience with until then.
"For those who understand, no explanation is necessary. For those who do not understand, no explanation is acceptable."
--paraphase of statement by Madelyne D'Engle
Joe and I are still best friends, even after that. I still pray for his return to the Faith. But I noticed something that for which I was very thankful. I believe in my hellish experiences, as bad as they were, God brought me closer to the Scriptural truth. (Job and Habbakkuk are two of my favorite books now) The Job-like circumstances that I went through, I feel, gave me a good chance to get a biblical perspective on the nature of things. I can honestly say that had it NOT been for my hellish experience and my seeing Scriptural paradigms in that experience, I may have well been where Joe is right now. Yet from time to time, I go back to what got me started here in the first place...and remember. And it keeps me solid in what I believe to be true.
What Is God Doing With Me Now
Life is tight. I'm finishing my degree and looking forward to doing more ministry. Later, I'll do the doctorate thing. At any rate, God is really dealing with me on prayer and reconciliation. As I have said before, I do a lot of dialogue with people of other faiths as well as atheists and agnostics. I've read more atheistic works than many "freethinking" atheists. I try as much as I can to read up on world religions from THEIR perspectives. I am garnering a collection of hard copies of all the holy writs of the major world religions. (Right now, libraries and various websites that post the books do the job VERY nicely) I also do a lot of interaction with ecumenical concerns. As far as the future is concerned, I feel led to do two things: 1) Preach the Gospel in the pastoral context and 2) teach philosophy of religion or Christian religious studies in a secular university. [Digression: There are too many atheists teaching about the Christian faith in our secular universities. Word up]
Epilogue
This is me in a nutshell, y'all. I pray this gives you some insight into who I am and why I think the way that I do. Keep me in your prayers, as I do the same for all of you. Love y'all.
Open and Vulnerable,
Mephi2K
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| Posted 6/27/2001 2:34 AM (GMT -6) | | Who I think G-D-G is.
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G-D-G, I have not recieved an e-mail from you. I would like to take a guess at who you are on this forum, but then, that would require either an affirmation or negative on your part. I don't think you want to be put in that spot. Hence the e-mail. I assure you, I will keep this confidential if you would like. Let me know.
Just for fun
Brandon
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| Posted 6/27/2001 2:34 AM (GMT -6) | | RE: Who I think G-D-G is.
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Ok. Ladies and gentlemen. I now have knowledge that you don't have. And it feels great. I now know who the great G-D-G is. I have "known" (strong intuition) for some time now. However, I am not at liberty to tell. It is Classified Information. Top Secret. Confidential. I do not want to put myself or the great G-D-G in jeopardy. Having said that, and wanting to keep the great G-D-G online, (I love what she writes, being a highly intelligent life form) I shall remain true to my word and not reveal who the great G-D-G is. Great G-D-G? You have my uttmost respect. God Bless and keep, keeping on.
Brandon
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| Posted 6/27/2001 2:35 AM (GMT -6) | | Sweet Stuff!
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Ok. Maybe I'll find out in time. (Holla back, ol' girl. Let a brother in...hehe) Right now, I just know:
1) She's quite the open and perceptive person.
2) She's very humble in her posts.
3) She's an avid reader and a connoisseur of fine literature.
4) She has a passion for matters theological.
5) She's down with hip-hop (A BIG Plus! )
6) She loves Jesus.
I think, for now, that's all I need to know. LOL
Peace out,
Mephi2K
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| Posted 6/27/2001 2:35 AM (GMT -6) | | RE: Sweet Stuff!
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Your list accurately portrays her Meph. Unfortunately for Shine150, I don't think she skates. Let me also add that those are qualities that many a man find attractive in a woman. Truly a Proverbs 31 woman she is! Go get 'em girl!
Brandon
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| Posted 6/27/2001 2:35 AM (GMT -6) | | GDG reveals her secret identity!
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Yes, it's true, Brandon guessed correctly, so I might as well let you all in on the secret: GDG is really Ann Graham Lotz!!! Betcha never woulda guessed I was a hip-hop fan with a secret identity! LOL Seriously though, Ann is a hero of mine, but I have a long way to go before I reach her stature.
Mephi and Brandon, you guys are the greatest! You're too good to me. I know that your props are totally honorable, but just so there is no confusion whatsoever in anyone's mind at all: GDG is taken.
Now, let's get the focus off guessing my identity. These stories are way more interesting and way more important!!! Let's praise God for the new identities he has given all of us.
Luv ya, GDG
p.s. Springs, Kass, Brandon, LL, others, I'd love to hear from you all in this thread!
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| Posted 6/27/2001 2:36 AM (GMT -6) | | RE: GDG reveals her secret identity!
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G-D-G,
Ooops. Didn't mean to seem like I was stalkin', jockin' or anything like that. Meph is taken as well. Straight lockdown in love with a wifey. So, there's no confusion here. LOL I was just givin' props where they were due.
Platonically your homie,
Tha Meph
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| Posted 6/27/2001 2:36 AM (GMT -6) | | GDG reveals her secret identity!
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The Great G-D-G said:
"I know that your props are totally honorable, but just so there is no confusion whatsoever in anyone's mind at all: GDG is taken."
Figures.
I hope to give some of my story here on this thread soon enough. I will in the near future. Thanks for the compliments G-D-G.
Brandon
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| Posted 6/27/2001 2:36 AM (GMT -6) | | RE: GDG reveals her secret identity!
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I don't care who G-D-G is, since being anonymous is a choice she has made. I have already told two Christian poet friends about her, and I assume they are looking in. The balancing out of the Arts & Faith is not easy in today's world. But this is something that G-D-G is apparently doing quite well, so I read her to collect insights as to how to do it, since I'm not nearly as successful in the mixing. If anything, reading her has had me turn with greater attention (and enthusiasm) to Christian poets of the past and present.
Steve Harris
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| Posted 6/27/2001 2:37 AM (GMT -6) | | RE: What's your story?
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This seems like a decent way to enter the board for the first time. Please notice the time I'm posting this, I don't ususally have time to answer quickly.
I was born and raised a Lutheran. So I don't have the same conversion story as many people that came to know Christ at a later age. I always thought I was a Christian. I guess the time I might consider as Salvation would have been near the age of 7 or so. My mother said I needed to accept Christ into my heart to go to heaven. I said I did! I then went outside the house and told the man on the ladder painting our house (he was just a contractor) that I had accepted Jesus into my heart. I remember he looked at me and said "Oh" and kept painting.
Quick detour here - in High School (a pre-pastor/teacher boarding school) I saw a TV show. It had a rabbi (language expert), and 2 Christians who worked translating the bible (the NIV at the time, if I remember correctly). They got on the topic of the translation of the passage where God says to Abraham when he was sacrificing Isaac "Now I know". I couldn't understand the Hebrew, but I could see my team was being soundly beaten by the rabbi. It appears the Jews have a view more consistant with OT than with forknowledge/predeterminism. This detour is important later.
So I went to church until I entered the army. In the army I heard that a bible study teacher I knew was being kicked out of the church I grew up in. I was stunned. He was the most intelligent, well spoken, upstanding, bible-based teacher. I dug into the details and found out the church leadership was totally corrupt. From then on every pastor demonstrated the same veneer. Church wasn't cool anymore.
I married a non-christian. Had 2 kids. Didn't go to church much. Then my wife left me and I thought I ought to try church again.
I could still see the same "something" in every church I went to that reminded me of the leadership in the church I grew up in. I couldn't put my finger on it. The lay people were confused about the bible (Lutheran, Baptist, Church of God, Charasmatic, it didn't matter). So I figured I'd just fumble through life like the rest of them. I never trusted leadership in any church and told them every chance I could if they were wrong. I wasn't liked much. I thought I was exercising truth in love, but the love was largely missing.
Then a few years back (4 years?) I bumped into a book that explained the OT position. Wow, life was real again. God was real - not some nebulous, "check your brains at the door", believe in but can't say why, distant, kind of God. I guess I was primed to believe this because I never forgot - the rabbi won the debate about what the bible said because the bible actually said it.
I started to tell my brothers and sisters in Christ how God was real. And I saw how my criticism previously lacked love. But now I was excited to explain how a relationship with God could be real. They didn't like it, and I got kicked out. Go figure, be a mean arguing jerk and you get tolerated, show a better way in love (and calm explaination) and get kicked out.
So I went to a few other churches. The best one can hope for where there is no OT church is to have good friends and sing hymns. I still debate when I can, but I've learned to avoid the leadership. The leadership has too much invested in their career to listen. And make no mistake about it, any leader who switches to the OT position highly risks having to find a new career. In fact, that is how I found this board - I read how the Baptists (Northern?) wanted to change some language in their laws to remove a single pastor named Greg Boyd.
Ach. I'm so tired I probably wrote things I shouldn't post. But if I were awake, I definely would not post. So be it.
Yorzhik
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| Posted 6/27/2001 2:37 AM (GMT -6) | | RE: RE: What's your story?
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Yorzhik,
I can certainly relate to this part... "I then went outside the house and told the man on the ladder painting our house (he was just a contractor) that I had accepted Jesus into my heart. I remember he looked at me and said "Oh" and kept painting. "
That was exactly the reaction I received when I first attempted to share my new found faith. I told my best bud that I KNEW God was real and His Son had saved me, she looked at me and basically said "that's nice". In my new found zeal I had just presented her with the answer to lifes question and she gave me a pat on the head like I was a two year old. Bummed out my high for the day.
don
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| Posted 6/27/2001 2:37 AM (GMT -6) | | RE: RE: GDG reveals her secret identity!
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Steve, thank you for your kind words! Before I step out of the discussion for a while, I wanted to tell you about a book I'm reading by a Catholic theologian, Alejandro García-Rivera, called "The Community of the Beautiful: A Theological Aesthetics." I'm having a hard time understanding it (right now I'm in the middle of his contrast of Plato and Augustine in the development of semiotics), but one thing I really like about it so far is that he bases his theological aesthetics on an exposition of Hopkins' "Pied Beauty." It's fascinating.
God bless you in your writing, reading, and ministry. GDG
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| Posted 6/27/2001 2:38 AM (GMT -6) | | RE: What's your story?
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Hello Board, I am MN777Saint.
Let me give you background on myself… I was the 10th child of 10 children, my Parents were French Canadian Roman Catholic. So as I grew up I did what any kid would do: Rebelled against them.
The harder they pushed thee further I went the other way.
I started with dope, started drinking at a young age and then on to heavy drugs & narcotics. Not only that, I also was into the Occult. That started with the New Age Metaphysical religion that my friend’s mom was into, it started more “New Age” regressions into Past lives, then into channeling of power through crystals.
But as I was, I wanted more so I went from White Magic to Black Magic. Deeper & deeper I fell into the Darkness; casting spells, incantations, necromancy even as to have a satanic bible in my possession.
Then something happened when I was 17 years old, my mother died of a heart attack. Of witch I thought I induced, for my mother would often times say, due to my rebellious nature, “One of theses days our going to give me a heart attack.” So as a 17-year-old, I thought I killed my own mom, and having that on my conscience I kept my self pretty much drugged up to cope for the months to follow.
Then on March 4, 1991 while driving my 2-door Pontiac J2000 hatchback in Rockford MN. Late at night with a very angry attitude toward life I was on Count Rd 50 pushing my little car as fast as it could go, the speedometer went to 80mph, I had it buried. Not paying attention to the road, a yellow 20-mph curve sign whizzed past me. Before my brain could process what it read, it was too late. The corner came to fast to handle; I started to fish tail, then swung the wheel the other way to counter the fish tail, and then Wham!
I awoke to find my self, half way in the passenger seat; I had not had my seat belt on. I tried to sit up, but a telephone pole had smashed in the driver’s side door. My car was in the shape of a backward c, wrapped around the telephone pole.
With the windshield gone it was cold, and I was tired, I took a deep breath, and the Pain that followed caused me to pass out. I came to again realizing I could barley breath, and with every breath I came closer to not breathing at all. I knew I was dying, don’t ask me how, I just knew. I also knew I didn’t want to die.
So I tried casting the spells I knew, they failed. Through incantations I called upon my familiars (spirits) to save me, they mocked me. So I called Upon Satan of whom I drew my powers, He replied “Your mine now!”
That’s when I remembered my parent’s prayers and their faith in God, Not that I wanted to test God, but he was my last chance. So I prayed “God if you exist, prove it to me, I want to live.” What happened next is hard to put into words, for how do you describe a voice that was so Loving, so Kind, so Beautiful, yet so Authoritative all rolled into one, that I heard not in my head, nor in my heart, but with my ears!
What He said to me was simply “Start the car.” I looked around to see where the voice was coming from the best I could, found no one. Then I thought “Oh great, I know I’m Dying, I’m Hearing Voices.”
Gently, yet with authority He said again to see if I would simply obey “Start the car.” Now it came down to would I put my faith in this voice & whose was it?
In the condition I was in, witch I did not know at the time was that the impact of the pole to the door then to my side broke three of my ribs as to where one of them punctured my left lung. And instead of air, ‘twas Blood that was rapidly filling my lungs, I was drowning!
Weakly I reached for the ignition. Witch was over my left leg for I was more in the passenger seat, for a telephone pole was in my seat and started the car; the Radio blared in my head, so turned it down. Then to keep my self from falling back into the passenger seat, I grabbed the steering wheel.
What I remember next between conciseness, was metal crunching, air moving, and scenery going by sideways at a slight angle.
To make a long story shorter, They found me still in the car 2.3 miles away from the broken telephone. Had to cut the car apart to get me out, fly me to North memorial Hospital via chopper or I would have been DOA.
Then while still in ICU for a week, my brother, who’s an auto mechanic notifies me he is picking up the car and explains to me that the engine block cracked upon impact. That there’s no way it would run, and the wheels where crunched by the metal, that a tow-truck will not move this, the wheels wont roll, he needs a flat bed to move it. It was then that I truly realized what I had said.
It took me a year to fully realize what the difference was between knowing about God & Knowing God, the difference between knowing and believing. I was fortunate to have some one not only lead me to Christ but to also help me understand what it truly means to “clean house” if you will with my life and give myself completely to God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, and Make him LORD of my life.
As a new believer I quickly understood the power of Prayer and that God still Heals, for I had the x-rays from North Memorial that showed my broken ribs. Then after Praying and of laying on of hands and a trip to my family doctor for a re-examination, a second set of x-rays and a doctor’s exam that showed that I never had a broken rib in my life.
So I am firmly convinced that God still speaks, still answers prayers, still Heals. Because if He didn’t I would not be here today as I am.
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Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 516
| Posted 6/27/2001 2:38 AM (GMT -6) | | RE: RE: What's your story?
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Hi mn777saint,
Thanks for your story. WOW. That is so cool!!
Ms. Wassup
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