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spenlake
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050
| Posted 5/7/2006 6:01 AM (GMT -6) |   | I would like to address the topic of guidance (finding the will of God). I think that it has to do with the Arminian/Predestination debate and "free will."
I know many people that look to a modern prophet or some spiritual impression for the certain will of God regarding some decision - who to marry or what job to take. The basic assumption is something like, "God has specific plans for everything that I am to do and I need to find these plans and obey them or things may go poorly." They are fearful of disobeying and coming under judgment. Somehow in their minds, perfect obedience to this hidden plan of God will result in unbroken success and happiness. Their future wellbeing is dependent upon first identifying God's hidden will by revelation and then obeying its directive.
There is another worldview on the subject that is radically different. This belief is built around the understanding of Christian liberty. In this system, God's moral will regarding what is sinful or not is revealed in scriptures. Thus, the certain will of God has already been comprehensively given to the church and Christians. Beyond the moral will of God, there is much, in fact most of the decisions of life, that is not specifically revealed in scripture for a given individual. This is hidden from us and will only be revealed as history unfolds. In this hidden future there are many decisions where none of the choices are sinful or not. For instance, do I marry Carla or Heather? God has said clearly that he who finds a wife finds a good thing. God even made women for man. I don't find in scripture though, whether Spen should marry Carla or Heather.
Let's look at this decision from both paradigms. In the first system, I must find a revelation that I feel is from God and then obey the impression or word of some modern prophet. If I fail to hear or obey properly, I risk a bad marriage. In the second paradigm, I pray for guidance and then I decide which woman I wish to marry, confident that God's will is actually being done and revealed in my decision! Once we are married I know beyond a shadow of doubt that my wife is God's choice for me. His will has certainly been done because I see in scriptures, "What God has joined together let no man separate." God Himself joined us together through my decision. In fact, God has joined every man and woman that have been married according to scripture's definition - believers and unbelievers throughout the ages. God was even active in the decisions of sinners and their wives.
Going a step further, we see that God uses the decisions of sinful men to accomplish His purposes. Joseph's wicked brothers sinned and sold Joseph into slavery. Yet, later Joseph says to them, "you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive." God used the sinful decisions to accomplish His purposes He had prophesied with certainty to Abraham. God guides us as we make our own decisions, looking to Him and trusting that He is indeed leading us.
Those who have an Arminian worldview and elevate the will of man, bristle at any notion that limits the power of man's will. Oddly, in a counter-intuitive way, these same people are the same ones that believe that there is only one perfect plan for their lives over every decision. Therefore they must have additional revelations so that their decisions obey God's hidden plan for maximum happiness. It is an odd contrast and extremely narrow and confining - no Christian liberty at all.
Those with a reformation worldview of the human will see and offer Christian liberty. While we believe that God does have a plan and that the end is already known; God reveals His plan in and through our own decisions. We are free to choose whatever that falls within Christian liberty with confidence knowing that God's will is being revealed as we do so. We have no fear of sinning or missing some hidden plan as the Arminian/modern prophet followers. When I married, God Himself joined me to my wife and this was His certain will.
Spen Lake
Post Edited (spenlake) : 5/7/2006 7:56:02 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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Similitude
Registered Member
Date Joined Apr 2004
Total Posts : 4968
| Posted 5/7/2006 7:50 AM (GMT -6) | | | Spen, I pretty much agree with your basic idea about finding God's will. But I don't see how that idea is contradictory to the Armenian view, per se.
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spenlake
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050
| Posted 5/7/2006 8:02 AM (GMT -6) | | I am linking the "lust for the hidden future" that drives much of the pursuit of modern prophets and mysticism to a kind of determinism that states that God has specific will for us in every decision (even those that have not been revealed in His moral will) and that if we fail to discern them, we risk judgment.
I am claiming that this view is much more confining than the view of Christian liberty in which I believe that I am exhibiting the will of God as I myself make decisions in the area of Christian liberty. I choose and the will of God is manifest and accomplished in my decisions.
I understand that all Aminians do not pursue the "modern prophets" but I think that nearly all those who pursue the "modern prophets" and mystics are Arminians. You are right to say that there is not necessarily a link to all Arminians, but I think that there is a link to all seekers of ""modern prophets."
I am guessing that most in the OV camp would state something like, "The hidden future is hidden to both God and me, and we find it revealed through our decisions." This is very different from the prophet people. Their view, I think, is the narrowest of all because the think that God's will, though hidden, is applied to each and every decision that they make - they multiply the ability to sin from the revealed moral will to every aspect of life. Then, to avoid sinning and falling into judgment, they need to discern God's hidden will and ultimately to obey it explicitly. Sounds tough, huh?
Think of the bondage that those who follow this stuff are suffering. No wonder being a false prophet pays so well. I have been messing around on the Charisma blogsite testing the concepts and finding it very useful.
PS. If you want to think about it, this is exactly the concept and premise of the authority of the Catholic church when they add their own laws and interpretations of God's laws as necessary and binding on their followers.
Spen Lake
Post Edited (spenlake) : 5/7/2006 8:11:10 AM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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Samwise
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 3
| Posted 5/10/2006 2:11 PM (GMT -6) | | | Spen,
An excellent question posed well. If I follow your premise, you seem to be saying that God reveals his will via our choices. If we are righteous, we are then aligned with his will and our choices will reflect his desires. The ultimate conclusion, if this is accurate, would be that anyone who is righteous (which I realize does not characterize anyone fully) could not make a wrong choice, or choose something that is contrary to God's will.
In your marriage scenario, it appears that you said your decision to marry one woman over another is clearly the correct decision because it falls within scriptural desire to marry at all. Would it be possible to marry the wrong one, in this view?
I tend to believe that we can, in fact, choose the wrong one, but that decision will not negate God's ability to work through that marriage, should we submit our won wills to His purposes. | | Back to Top | | |
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spenlake
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050
| Posted 5/10/2006 4:31 PM (GMT -6) | | |
Samwise,
There are special cases where God Himself has invalidated a union as "not marriage" such as incest or adultery - as these are against God's revealed moral law they are not real marriages. When dealing with real marriages, I don't think that we could argue that there is a wrong woman. Once we are married, Jesus tells all men without distinction, "what God has joined together let no man separate." Every married man and woman without distiction are "one flesh" before God.
It is just this concept, that a man could be married to the wrong woman before God, that I am opposing. Once they are married, both God's will and God's choice for a wife have certainly been revealed. There may have been other women that would have made the man happier or more successful in work or in life. This, however, is not necessarily God's goal. His goal is eternal. What men or satan may mean for evil in this world God can mean for good now and/or eternally, even the greater good of those beyond our own marriage.
My point is that once a man is married it has been certainly manifest that his wife is certainly God's will and there is not another or better will in God. We may conjecture on other outcomes, but God's certain choice for a wife has certainly been made evident to all men, and the man certainly made it.
Spen Lake
Post Edited (spenlake) : 5/10/2006 4:36:18 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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Samwise
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 3
| Posted 5/11/2006 10:09 AM (GMT -6) | | Spen,
Thank you for clarifying. Interesting dialogue. Would it be safe to say that the next logical conclusion from your statement might be that if a man chooses not to marry, that they are outside of God's will? I don't think you would say that, but it could certainly be inferred. I think the idea you are presenting, outside of the idea of marriage, is that anything that falls within biblically advocated actions is God's will, and anything that is admonished in the Bible is outside of God's will. That is the determiner. Therefore, in essence, God really doesn't care who you marry because marriage is a biblical concept. God really doesn't care if you stay single, since that is also a biblical concept (via Paul). Your goal, then, would be to implement the choices you make with an eye on whether the general idea is within biblical grounds. Beyond that "rule" God's will need not be known.
I can see how this allows for tremendous freedom. A value I am thankful for, and can offer a sense of personal empowerment. Yet, it also can conjure a lack of purpose. I have made some decisions in my life feeling a great deal of autonomy. Others, I have made because of my sense that God's direction was being offered and I aught to submit to that. Still others, I felt as though God was directing, and I chose not to be obedient in my own sinfulness or passive apathy. I am heartened by the thought that God still directs, at times, and offers a greater sense of His will for our lives. Would you agree with that? | | Back to Top | | |
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spenlake
Registered Member
Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 1050
| Posted 5/11/2006 10:25 AM (GMT -6) | | |
Samwise,
As you note, Paul specifically extended freedom to individuals to make up their own mind whether they would marry or not. Neither option is commanded or prohibited. I want to be clear that I do think that God is still speaking to us, even through impressions and perhaps even angels? We know that even angels can perhaps preach a false gospel and then they should not be listened to. We have liberty in our decisions, once we know that they are not sinful, to take whatever input we want to make them. It can be objective factual input or subjective "feeling" input - with whatever input we wish - we can make decisions and God's certain will is manifested. We are not even bound by what kind of input we use as long as it is not sin. This means it is not a sin to be stupid! We have liberty to make stupid decisions that are non-optimal according to any measure except sin. It is not a sin to be sub-optimal.
Take heart that even in our apathy and stupidity, God's will is being done and manifest in your decisions.
Spen Lake
Post Edited (spenlake) : 5/11/2006 1:27:03 PM (GMT-5) | | Back to Top | | |
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