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Registered Member
Date Joined Jun 2001
Total Posts : 516
| Posted 6/28/2001 5:52 PM (GMT -6) |   | Message
TGB
03/10/01 8:49 AM
Open Anthropology
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Friends-
Is the OV necessarily Pelagian in its anthropology? Does the OV even necessitate a particular view on, say, the results of the Fall, Rom. 5.12-21, etc.? Recently had a friend explode to me: "Open Theism is Pelagian!" Does the OV require the view that "Every man is his own Adam"?
Any takers?
Tom
NB. Mephi and Modes, I have a note to you both tucked away in Modes's thread "To Mephi, a question for clarification." Can you check it out?
Posted Originally From: Open Theism Information Site
ModesofThought
03/17/01 2:10 PM
RE: Open Anthropology
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Nope, in the same way prevenient grace saves the day for Arminians, it does for Open Theists. Good question, sorry it got missed for so long!
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
TGB
03/29/01 8:28 AM
RE: RE: Open Anthropology
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Modes-
Capsulize "prevenient grace" as you understand it. Is libertarian free will, genuine "power to the contrary," consistent with prevenient grace? Do the unregenerate face genuine options on evil and righteousness which they may in themselves actualize? If they do not face such options, what of “power to the contrary”?
Tom
Posted Originally From: Open Theism Information Site
GregBoyd
03/29/01 2:24 PM
RE: RE: RE: Open Anthropology
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Open theists need say nothing different about anthropology than what Arminians have always said. Personally, I would agree with almost everything CALVINIST say about the lostness of humans apart from grace. I would only differ in asserting that the working of the HOly Spirit to open the hearts of reprobate sinners is NOT irresistible.
Fallen people can and do choose the good (remember, the foribidden tree gave us the knowledge of "good AND evil")... but we never choose God as a source of life on our own power. We need God to choose God.
Amen
Doc
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
RevivalTheology
05/29/01 7:42 AM
RE: Open Anthropology
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I have recently read a exposition on Romans 5:12 by an Orthodox (Eastern) theologian that demonstrates the lack of foundation in Pauline writings of Augustine's anthropology but also does not go to the extent of Pelagius'.
While denying inherited guilt and Adamic federalism (which he asserts finds its roots in Origen's theology of the pre-existence of souls - a view declared heretical by one of the Ecumenical Synods, though I forget which offhand), he asserts the domination of this world by Satan, who is, interestingly enough, at "war" with God and who "plays" by no rules that he can avoid.
In the Lamb
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
RevivalTheology
05/29/01 8:16 AM
RE: RE: RE: Open Anthropology
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Yeah, quite frankly I find Pelagius' view of "natural grace" not dissimilar to "prevenient grace." Besides, what is the practical difference in saying that libertarian freedom is a result of "prevenient grace", "natural grace" or, as Finney termed it, "natural ability?"
In the Lamb
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
TGB
05/29/01 2:02 PM
RE: RE: Open Anthropology
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RT-
Hey guy! Who's the Orthodox writer?
Tom
Posted Originally From: Open Theism Information Site
RevivalTheology
05/29/01 2:29 PM
RE: Open Anthropology
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Tom, check out here.
In the Lamb
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
GregBoyd
05/29/01 4:00 PM
RE: RE: Open Anthropology
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Thanks for the tip Revival Theology. This is a heck of a good article! For me personally, its refreshing to find someone who sees the importance of a "warfare worldview" as a backdrop to answer these questions. I recommend this article to all readers!
Doc
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
trosie
05/30/01 3:30 AM
RE: RE: Open Anthropology
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In the article, "ORIGINAL SIN ACCORDING TO ST. PAUL" by John S. Romanides, it is stated: "There is no escape from the battlefield. The only choice possible for every man is either to fight the devil by actively sharing in the victory of Christ..."
This is an interesting article, Revival Theology! Although what I got from it wasn't probably your motive in referring people to it, nevertheless the above quote really spoke to me because of the battle I find myself to presently be fighting. A few months back I heard a sermon stating that when we feel the most discouraged (being spiritually attacked from the enemy) we need to get into intense worship and praise to God to help get us through it and thereby receive the victory. There definitely is no escaping the battle, and definitely our only way of winning is sharing in Christ's victory through worshipping Him. The Psalms are full of cries for help to the Lord, yet they are also full of praises to Him which helps demonstrate to us the power and victory found through our worship and praise.
We achieve the victory in Christ when we surrender to Him through focusing on Him and not on ourselves, just as the article went on to discuss. This helps make sense out of why God wants us to worship Him during the battle -- it takes the focus off our flesh (where Satan can influence us) and leads our minds and hearts to Him (where we can find His truth)
RT, thanks for directing us to this article (as you have done with so many other articles) I also want to again express how much I appreciate having this discussion board where I am learning and growing in Christ through all the various participants!
trosie
PS. RT, did you receive the testimony I sent to you a few weeks back?
Posted Originally From: Christus Victor Ministries
RevivalTheology
05/30/01 7:54 PM
RE: Open Anthropology
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Trosie, my only motive in sharing the article was its discussion on the anthropology of Paul versus the anthropology of Augustine. I found the warfare reference interesting, though I wouldn't equate it, I guess, as you would.
Other than that, I'm not sure as to what you might be alluding.
Oh, and as for you question at the last, I confess I haven't had a chance to get to my P. O. Box, but I will, I will!!
In the Lamb
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